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Author
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Topic: Finally, a Christian Alliance FOR Progress ...
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EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6125 days) Posts: 111 From: Phoenix, Arizona USA Joined: 07-22-2005
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Re: Deceptive
Perhaps you should re-examine my post. You obviously did not fully understand what was offered. If you had, your post would have been unneccessary. Disdain for morality is hardly the answer.
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein
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EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6125 days) Posts: 111 From: Phoenix, Arizona USA Joined: 07-22-2005
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Message 17 of 38 (225651)
07-23-2005 10:59 AM
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Reply to: Message 14 by crashfrog
07-23-2005 9:29 AM
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Re: Deceptive
I cannot be held accountable for your lack of understanding.
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 14 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2005 9:29 AM | | crashfrog has not replied |
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EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6125 days) Posts: 111 From: Phoenix, Arizona USA Joined: 07-22-2005
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Message 18 of 38 (225655)
07-23-2005 11:40 AM
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Reply to: Message 14 by crashfrog
07-23-2005 9:29 AM
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Re: Deceptive
EJ writes: He is the Word of God, written, spoken, or otherwise. That is the reality. crashfrog writes: This is the sort of nonsense that typefies Christanist fundamentalism. A man, or even a God, can't be a word. How can Jesus be a word? That's a nonsense statement, from a religion of nonsense. The Word of God writes: John 1:1-14 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
I cannot say where your understanding of God or Jesus comes from but I can say that it obviously does not come from the Bible which is the only reliable source from which we can ascertain the truth. Please do not attempt to hold me accountable for your gross lack of understanding.
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 14 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2005 9:29 AM | | crashfrog has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 20 by CK, posted 07-23-2005 11:45 AM | | EltonianJames has not replied | | | Message 21 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2005 12:21 PM | | EltonianJames has not replied | | | Message 22 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2005 2:01 PM | | EltonianJames has not replied |
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Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: 10-22-2002
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Re: three epithets
What makes you think Jesus wasn't a bigot?
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CK
Member (Idle past 4158 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: 07-04-2004
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Re: Deceptive
How do you know Jesus wasn't gay? It doesn't say in the bible he wasn't and he was suppose to be living on the planet as a man. He liked to hang out with lots of guys and never took a wife (Very odd for that time period).
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Re: Deceptive
I cannot say where your understanding of God or Jesus comes from Years of being a Christian fundamentalist, like yourself.
but I can say that it obviously does not come from the Bible which is the only reliable source from which we can ascertain the truth. Unfortunately the Bible is full of nonsense, like the passage you quoted above.
Please do not attempt to hold me accountable for your gross lack of understanding. Just what I thought - you don't understand it either. Nobody I've ever met actually does. That emperor has no clothes.
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Re: Deceptive
Oh, and contrary to your disgusting, insulting implication in your aborted new thread, I have in fact studied the Bible for many years, in both the context of being an adherent of Christianist fundamentalism and more objectively in an academic setting. You're not going to find too many people here who are as ignorant of the Bible as you seem to think. (Except, generally, the people who actually believe in it.)
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1375 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Re: three epithets
Simply acknowledging that sin is sin does not make one a bigot, unless you also think Jesus was a bigot. then i won't be a bigot when i judge you a sinner. care to hear the grounds i condemn you on?
אָרַח
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1375 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Re: Deceptive
Disdain for morality is hardly the answer neither is disdain for people.
אָרַח
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EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6125 days) Posts: 111 From: Phoenix, Arizona USA Joined: 07-22-2005
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Message 25 of 38 (225745)
07-23-2005 4:26 PM
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Sinner saved by Grace
Some have chosen to call me a sinner. I cannot deny that I am such.
"It is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9 Were I not a sinner, what purpose would Grace serve?
Since therefore, brethren, we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, and since (we have) a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled (clean) from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging (one another); and all the more, as you see the day drawing near. Hebrews 10:19-25 My conscience is clear in that I have not chosen to compromise the Word of God in order to satisfy some modern philosophy as to origins.
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit [is there] of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? [Is] God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? And not [rather], (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just. What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips: Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet [are] swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery [are] in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. [Is he] the God of the Jews only? [is he] not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Rom 3:1-31 Self proclaimed "christians" who deny the entirety of the Word of God shall receive no respect from me. Christ called them "Vipers", and rightly so. They are nothing but white-washed graves full of dead mens bones. I find no need to judge them. Their own words shall be their judge. They justly condemn themselves through their abandonment of the Living Word of God and their unholy alliance with ungodly doctrines and beliefs.
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1375 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Re: Sinner saved by Grace
Self proclaimed "christians" who deny the entirety of the Word of God shall receive no respect from me. fair enough.
quote:
Lev 19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard
do you shave? cut your hair? go thy way and sin no more!
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Lev 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I [am] the LORD.
got any tatoos or piercings? those are gonna have to go too. sin no more!
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Lev 19:30 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I [am] the LORD.
do you work saturdays? go thy way and sin no more!
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Exd 23:19 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
eat cheese on your sandwich today? go thy way and sin no more!
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Lev 11:7-8 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they [are] unclean to you.
was that a ham and cheese sandwich? maybe a bacon cheeseburger? go thy way and sin no more!
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Lev 15:19 And if a woman have an issue, [and] her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even.
do hug your wife when she's having her period? better not do that. go thy way and sin no more! oh, but you say, homosexuality is an ABOMINATION. alright, bring on the abominations.
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Lev 11:10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which [is] in the waters, they [shall be] an abomination unto you:
well, that pretty much screws red lobster. eat there, and you're going to hell.
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Lev 11:20 All fowls that creep, going upon [all] four, [shall be] an abomination unto you.
kfc's out too. and i certainly hope you didn't eat turkey last tahnksgiving, otherwise, you're going to hell.
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Lev 11:43 Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby.
don't touch cockroaches. or you're going to hell.
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Lev 19:7 And if it be eaten at all on the third day, it [is] abominable; it shall not be accepted.
leave your leftovers in the fridge too long? you're going to hell. tell me, sinner, are you right with god? or do you persist in your sin? why don't you repent, and stop sinning?
Were I not a sinner, what purpose would Grace serve? if graces saves you who continue in your sin, what right do you have to judge others who continue in theirs?
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Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
אָרַח
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Re: Sinner saved by Grace
They justly condemn themselves through their abandonment of the Living Word of God God, here we go again. More nonsense. Words can't be alive. Unless it's some kind of metaphor? But that would make the Bible not literal, wouldn't it?
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1375 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Message 28 of 38 (225752)
07-23-2005 4:45 PM
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Reply to: Message 27 by crashfrog
07-23-2005 4:40 PM
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Re: Sinner saved by Grace
God, here we go again. More nonsense. Words can't be alive. poor translation resulting in strange ideas. in one of the targums, god is refered to as "memra," the aramaic ward for "to speak," since god is most often depicted speaking, or commanind things to happen rather than actually doing something. this is a slightly uncommon way to do it, but one of the ways this particular name seems to have gotten translated into other languages was "word." ie: "the Word." at some point, this got confabulated with jesus, and it could help explain why in the book of john jesus is viewed as god, but also not god. ("the word was WITH and the word WAS god," etc)
אָרַח
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 27 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2005 4:40 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 29 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2005 4:48 PM | | arachnophilia has replied |
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Re: Sinner saved by Grace
Yeah, great. Still doesn't make a whit of sense to me. "God is the Speaker" is a lot, lot different an idea than "God is the Word". That's like saying "the hunter is the arrow." It's cute Zen but it doesn't mean anything.
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1375 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Message 30 of 38 (225756)
07-23-2005 4:57 PM
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Reply to: Message 29 by crashfrog
07-23-2005 4:48 PM
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Re: Sinner saved by Grace
well, like i said. it's the fault of poor translation. there was something of a problem translated ha-shem (YHWH) into aramaic for the masses. how would the aramaic-speaking jews know their god? there were a couple of ideas that were tried. some tried to transliterate, others tried to capture some concept of god. and "to speak" was one such concept. because all they really had of god was his words -- the text, the covenant, the commandments, the law, prophet's messages, etc. and some point (probably going through greek, although i don't actually know) "to speak" became "word"
אָרַח
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 29 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2005 4:48 PM | | crashfrog has not replied |
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