War in Iraq, is there a point?

Sounds similar to the stuff the generals were saying in Vietnam circa 1967. Might not mean anything, but then again, it might mean everything. The "McNamara Line" and over half a million U.S. troops couldn't shut down the Ho Chi Min Trail in S. Vietnam, what makes us think we can shut down infiltration of people and arms from Syria and Iran with 125,000 U.S. troops in Iraq - a much larger country and longer border? As for the number of attacks, by General Casey's own estimate, which is probably too optimistic, the insurgents are attempting 200 attacks and succeeding in 50 of them. That is a 25% success rate in carrying out attacks. For asymetric warfare that is an astoundingly high success rate.On edit - I would also add, as long as U.S. commanders continue to try to minimize U.S. casualties by putting Marines in armored vehicles and sending them down the road we will not only take MORE casualties but we will also continue to lose ground in the ultimate mission of pacifying Iraq and building a stable democracy.This message has been edited by deerbreh, 08-23-2005 01:52 PM

You are obviously very young. We didn't need home schooling when I went to school, liberals hadn't destroyed the school system yet. As for my education, (why do liberals always try to attack conservatives on intellectual grounds, anyway?) I graduated summa cum laude with a BA in business administration, minor in accounting, my IQ is 157. Try another tactic, this one won't work.

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What exactly is so offensive about asking you why you don't know you're supposed to refrain from saying negatives about your country when its at war? That's just a little lesson in Citizenship 101. Obviously some of you guys didn't take this course.

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It's offensive because some of us don't believe our country is incapable of doing bad things. A lot of us really really like the United States and what we think it stands for and don't want to see it become something else. We're concerned because we know this is a country that is, ultimately, ruled by the people and if we refrain from saying negative things in a time of war it is no longer led by those people but by the people we've put in power.I hate to bring up the Nazis but... well... a lot of us were raised in an era after World War II and saw that what happened in Germany during that time was a result of citizens refraining from saying negatives about their country. I should note that I am not comparing the United States to Nazi Germany, just that this suggestion that we should shut up b/c we're at war is one of many roads that can lead to that destination.

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Would like to see the women in our nation wearing burkas? Sharia laws imposed on the entire population? Think man, think. Is this really what you people want?

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If the leadership of our country begins implementing these rules while at a time of war, are we then allowed to say something negative about our country or do we have to keep quiet then too? Just curious.

THERE's the problem in a nutshell. Every generation since the sixties has been fed more and more of this anti-American New Left propaganda as the sixties generation moved into teaching roles at every level of the education system. At least you consciously chose to be a Communist. Most others are simply indoctrinated and they know not what indoctrinated into.This message has been edited by Faith, 08-23-2005 02:00 PM

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(why do liberals always try to attack conservatives on intellectual grounds, anyway?)

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What are you talking about? I was answering your post: I was only answering you in kind. If you don't like these kind of remarks, then maybe you shouldn't initiate these kinds of attacks.By the way, I am in my 40's, and I have an MS in physics and an MS in mathematics, not that I think it has any relevance to the discussion.

Well, fine then. Perhaps we can elevate this discussion to a more adult one. You inquired as to whether I might have been home-schooled, as if I'd led a sheltered life. Nothing could be farther from the truth, I assure you, & I am 49 years old, myself.

Let me address this point first.What the hell are you talking about? Now to your Vietnam analogy.The Viet Cong did use guerilla tactics. They were organized into three levels: regular forces operating under the command of the southern communist leadership, full time guerrillas organized into companies serving under provincial leadership and finally, a part time self-defense militia, composed of units organized into squads and platoons used primarily for village defense. Primarily, the VC were guerrillas, and it has been said that no one has ever developed an adequate defense against guerrilla warfare. They wore no uniforms, dressed in the same type of clothing as the local peasants, and blended into the landscape when their mission was complete. The VC would periodically launch hit-and-run attacks on government installations, military outposts and even district towns in the South.Now does this sound alot like the guerrilla warefare going on in Iraq?Yes, but here is the difference:The People's Liberation Armed Forces (PLAF), more popularly known as the Viet Cong (VC), was the military arm of the National Liberation Front (NLF). Established at the end of 1960, the VC was created by the North Vietnamese communists to escalate the armed struggle in South Vietnam.The Viet Cong had a vision, bases, functional chain of command, headquarters, funding, and political support. It was the military wing of a political entity.In Iraq you have an insurgency with no vision, no base, limited popular support, fighting an elected government with committed Iraqis to the democratic process, and you have Iraqi security forces that are fighting and dying for their country everyday.Its nothing like vietnam. The Generals over in Iraq will tell you so.

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LOL! So it's a vast, left-wing, conspiracy is it?All those crazy commies that escaped HUAC have invaded our schools to teach accurate history and EVILution?

Hi, Faith.I would dispute that my communism was a conscious choice. I feel that I was compelled to communism based on what I know; I could no more choose to become a capitalist than I could choose to be a flat earther. If the facts were otherwise, I would probably be compelled to become a capitalist despite what I would choose.But issues of free will (as well as epistemology) are probably beyond the scope of this thread, heh. Just had to disagree with one of your points (and probably not the one you were expecting, either, heh.)

Good respones Tal. Do you have any info on the numbers the VC gorilla forces had?Also, I posed some questions in post #166, maybe you missed them.

Doc, I addressed this in message 156 (still haven't found out how to link to a message, can anyone help?)I'll reiterate here.There is a right way and a wrong way to protest. Breasts not Bombs is the wrong way to protest.These wackos have defined who it is to be a protester. There doesn't seem to be any logical or intellectual debate going on here, just stupidity and seething hatred at Bush.

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

By the way, I have nothing against home schooling. I'd be tempted to consider it myself if I had kids.

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There is a right way and a wrong way to protest.

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I see what you are saying but would like to know, from your perspective, what is the right way to protest?

30,000 in 64. Anyone's guess after that. The VC was marginal in 74 and was eventually folded into the PVAN (People's Army of Vietnam).This message has been edited by Tal, 08-23-2005 02:15 PM

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*