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Author | Topic: Luke and Matthews geneologies | |||||||||||||||||||
John Inactive Member |
quote: Howdy! Now that is a response !!!!!!
quote: You're joking? The evidence is laying around like manna from heaven. Nice posture but it means nothing.
quote: Certainly, until proven wrong...
quote: Please cite a source for those inscriptions. What I have found contradicts your statement.
The Syriac language also developed different scripts. The earliest Syriac inscriptions of the first and second centuries A.D. (all pagan) use a script similar to Palmyrene cursive writing. By the time of our earliest manuscripts (early fifth century A.D.) however, this script has taken on a more formalised character, known as Estrangelo (derived from Greek strongulos 'rounded')
ERROR 404 - PAGE NOT FOUND I did find a reference to the 6AD date but no description of the script used on the inscription.
quote: ummmm... yeah, no kidding. That doesn't make it the same language. Please don't play childish games with me.
quote: Fine. Cureton believed this. Cureton has also been dead for 150 years and new information may just have popped up. Got anything more recent? Also interesting to note that you did not include, from the site you reference, that "Cureton cautiously remarked that insufficient evidence existed at that time for him to be certain, but..." Then follows the text your quoted.
quote: LOL... You can't be serious? They use it church and they think it is older and so it is? This is your argument? Merely the opinion of some scholars? It is the opinion of every scholar I have found. Honestly, if this is how you are going to debate, I have no need for you.
quote: I give you research and data and archeology and the opinions of scholars. And you give me THIS?!? The irony of your quote from Josephus is almost too much to bear. Josephus, writing in Greek, explaining that he took pains to learn Greek and that free-men and servants as well spoke it while at the same time saying multiliguism was not encourages. LOL 4)The NT quotes the Greek septuagint, thus establishing that the authors read Greek. The NT DOES NOT quote the LXX! It merely agrees wjth the LXX over the massoretic text the majority of times.
The New Testament authors show a clear preference for the Septuagint over Masoretic readings.
No webpage found at provided URL: http://home.earthlink.net/~rgjones3/Septuagint/spexecsum.htm The preference for the septuagint is pretty clear.
quote: hmmm.... so the greek translators translated the whole book except for a few words? It doesn't make sense.
quote: Nor would it make sense to leave that in if the work were translated from greek into aramaic. You point proves nothing. Everywhere I look, I find evidence for a greek original NT. The vaste majority of scholars support the theory. Please, try to do better. All the best..........judge
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John Inactive Member |
quote: That's quite an interesting idea, Karl. But why argue that Jesus was the messiah foretold in the OT and simultaneously contradict that prophetinc tradition? It doesn't make sense. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Even a cursory review of the subject will reveal that there is vastly more to the tradition than that.
No webpage found at provided URL: http://Torah.freeyellow.com/18.html No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.jfjonline.org/apol/qa/prophecy.html No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.messiahrevealed.org/index.html ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Matthew doesn't contradict the line of David aspect, per se. Matthew does contradict the prophetic traditions concerning the Kingship of Christ by including an ancestor whose line God cursed to never again sit on the throne of Israel. Matthew is appealing to the tradition and contradicting it in the same breath, so to speak. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: But you are still contradicting the prophetic tradition, which contains nothing to suggest that such a lift o' curse is the be the case. In other words, you have Matthew redefining the tradition on the spot. Redefining is not the same as fulfilling. Think about it this way. 1) We are to know the Messiah because of the prophecies he fulfills. This is a safety mechanism to weed out pretenders. 2) If Matthew is doing what you suggest, then he is undercutting the prophetic tradition which is to allow us to identify the messiah. You are reasoning in circles. "Christ was the Messiah. The curse was lifted because Christ was the messiah. We know that the curse was lifted because if it hadn't been then Christ wouldn't be the messiah, which he is. So the curse was lifted." ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com [This message has been edited by John, 12-04-2002]
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Curiously, there is no mention of the critical element-- the script style-- in the article you cited.
The earliest datable Syriac writings are from this kingdom. They are in the form of inscriptions found at Birecik, (near Edessa) dating from 6 AD, (Maricq 1962, Pirenne 1963). These early Syriac inscriptions demonstrate that the Syriac language and script existed before Jesus' ministry All this tells us is that there is an inscription in Syriac in 6 AD. I haven't disputed the existance of Syriac in 6 AD. The key issue is the script style of estrangelo in which the Peshitta is written and which style did not come into use until appr. 300 AD. I notice that the "Syriac language and script" existed before Jesus' ministry. This is evasive at best.
quote: Josephus wrote Jewish War in aramaic, which was then translated int Greek. Antiquities was written in Greek.
The twenty volumes of the Jewish Antiquities, in which Flavius Josephus explains Jewish history to a non-Jewish audience, appeared in 94. Its model is a book by the Greek historian Dionysius of Halicarnassus, who wrote twenty books of Roman Antiquities. This time, Josephus wrote the text in Greek and did not use a translator. The result is a text which is less pleasant to read, even though its subject matter is very interesting.
Error 404 - Livius ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Because the Messiah happens to be King of the Jews and Christ's line runs through a man whose line is NEVER, as per God's curse, to produce a king.
quote: I think you are missing the point. How are we to tell who the messiah is except via that messiah's fulfilling of prophecy?
quote: OK theologically? It means that messiah-hood is up for grabs. Anyone can claim the right by redefining the conditions. You are bypassing the supposed safety measures put in place by the prophets. It is catastrophic theologically. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Adding-to, I would agree, is not a problem. But what you have is not adding. It is modification and alteration. For the claim to be true that Mtthew was adding to the prophecies, the prophecies would first have to be fulfilled. To this one could add. The story Matthew tells is of Christ fulfilling altered prophecies. It isn't the same thing.
quote: There is nothing in the prophecies, to my knowledge, suggesting that this is to be the case. If the fulfilling of prophecies is as flexible as it appears you believe, what good are they in determining the identity of the messiah?
quote: Not so. There is nothing complicated about what I ask, nor is there anything beyond the abilities of the people of the time. Why is it, do you think, that most of the Jewish community did not accept Christ as the Messiah? Perhaps because his fulfilling of the prophecies was a joke? Follow the link below for some extracts showing how Jesus was viewed by the Jews.
JESUS CHRIST IN THE TALMUD quote: Not a problem.
quote: Of course, then we wouldn't be talking about the Jewish Messiah. How is this point relevant? ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Notice that the Bible does state 3 sets of 14. 3 x 14 = 42. You can't have it both ways. You cannot have 3 sets of 14 and not have 42. This is silly. Secondly, you have to list one name twice-- David's-- to get 14 names in each set. This is odd, to say the least. Third, Chronicles 3 lists 18 generations between David and the Babylonian captivity, not fourteen. You can't have it both ways. One book or the other is wrong. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: What does it matter?
30 Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah. Notice that the whole line was cursed. It doesn't matter if it is his son, grandson, great-grandson or Christ himself. The WHOLE line is cursed.
quote: You can't really be saying what I think you are? More importantly, why?
quote: If I am not mistaken those referred to as such were descendants of David.
quote: Maybe Christ was called this because it was necessary for him to be the messiah? This doesn't really change the fact that his popularizers screwed up the genealogies.
quote: Jewish law does not allow this sort of thing and since Christ was Jewish and supposedly the JEWISH messiah this type of adoption of lineage does not fly. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Funkie, what is this? Several times this has been your response and it makes no sense to me. There must be a secret? ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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