Randman's call for nonSecular education...

OK, randman, let's say that we do as you advise and spend years and years of time teaching American schoolchildren all about the Bible....which Bible?And who's interpretation of that Bible?

OK, randman, let's say that we do as you advise and spend years and years of time teaching American schoolchildren all about the Bible....which Bible?And who's interpretation of that Bible?

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I'm not sure if I'd teach ethics. Ethical systems are like religion to me in that they should be taught at home. And if there were to be ethics courses then I think they should emphasize comparison of systems rather than instruction of any.

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Zhimbo tells me that he took a class called "Values" quite early on, in grade school.He's still asleep so I can't ask him about it at the moment, but he seemed to think, when we spoke of it in the past, that it was a basic sort of "treat others as you would want to be treated" sort of class.Nothing religious.

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Not all Christians are Catholics, and not all Catholics are Christians (although most probably are. The two are not the same.

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Actually, all Catholics are, indeed, Christians. It's only some kinds of Catholic-hating Protestants that classify Catholics as non-Christians. I was raised Catholic, and everyone I knew in church always though of themselves as Christian.

Let's go ahead and extensively teach the Bible, over many years, to all public school children as you urge, randman.Which Bible?And who's interpretation of which Bible?

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Essentially he's already answered this. It appears that he is interested in as many views being taught as possible.

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I don't know if I believe this.If we are going to teach "The Bible" then what does that mean, exactly? There are many different versions of the Bible, and many more interpretations of each of those versions. Some of them vary widely, and each claim that there's alone is the correct interpretation.It is impractical to teach all of them, or even many of them, so only a few can be chosen to teach.What I want to know from randman is, which ones should we teach?

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In fact, understanding history and religion is more important than teaching kids languages they quickly forget, science they forget even quicker, etc,...

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Oh, yes, understanding how science and technology works is quite useless, since science has such a small impact on our everyday lives...

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No one is asking that students be taught they have to believe, but ignoring theology and religion is just a recipe for ignorance in education.

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And I already told you that nobody is ignoring theology and religion in the public schools.Just because I didn't spend half my school time studying theology and religion doesn't mean it was ignored.So, you do realize that the more time spent on in-dept religious history, the less time spent on things like spelling, reading, writing, arithmatic, etc.It's starting to sound like you want to move closer to what the radical imam-run Islamic schools dis under the Taliban in Afghanistan; teach only the koran to the exclusion of all else.And you still haven't answered holmes about why should christian protestantism be stressed over all other religions when the children are young?Surely, the native religion should come before christianity if studying the religious history of north america, correct, considering the indians were here for at least 10,000 years before the Europeans came?This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-17-2005 06:27 AM

.This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-17-2005 06:33 AM

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Well one reason is so people can understand the Bill of Rights and what the nation is founded on. The nation is founded upon factionalism not that a unifying ideology such as secular humanism or one brand of religion should predominate.

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Secularists have turned this on it's head, and try to make their own ideology the de facto state religion by excluding anything but that. So they teach the Enlightenment was essentially the religion of the nation, and that secular humanism is therefore really what we should all be.

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I don't know of any secular humanist, including myself, who believes that.In fact, if anything, we have a long, long history of Christians trying to impose their religion upon everyone else in the country, right up to the present time.I mean, seriously, when was the last time you even heard of a secular humanist going door to door, trying to get people to renounce their faith? I get the Mormons, the Baptists, the Evangelicals, and the Jehovah's Witnesses coming to my door all the time. We get billboards trying to get people to believe in the Christian God, lots of televangelists, the 700 club, Capus Crusade for Christ shouting yo people on the street corner, holding silly banners, handing out pamplets that would only convert a stupid person who already believes (...but what about what it says in the Bible!?), and even a year round Christmas store in the mall who's shopping bags read "Jesus is the Reason for the Season."We are steeped, marinated, and roilling in Christianity in this country, and you have the gall and the utter lack of perspective to think that secular humanism is somehow any kind of major force in our culture.This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-17-2005 06:44 AM

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into a law that prohibits and bans religious expression,

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How are you prevented from practicing your religion?(also, please note my sig...)This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-17-2005 04:29 PM

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"History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."--Thomas JeffersonThere is no greater threat to civil liberties than an efficient government. -jar

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and you know of examples yourself such as banning Christmas displays,

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You aren't allowed to put up a Christmas display at your house?

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prayers at public events, etc,...

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People can pray all they want at public events.If the event isn't a government-sponsored event, there can be all the group prayer they want.If it's a government sponsored event, then people can pray privately all they want.You can pray all the damn day and night for all I care.

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Religious expression is prohibited, period,

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You can't put up a Christmas display at your house?Answer the question.

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Religious expression is prohibited. How can you argue that? Take the 10 Commandments thing. Personally, I don't even think of that as religious expression, but more as cultural expression, but the reasoning behind banning it is that it is a religious expression.
Same with opening high school football games with prayer, or prayer at governmental functions, Christmas displays on public property, etc, etc,...

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So what does any of this have to do with you putting up a christmas display at your house?You can put a Christmas display up at your house, correct?You can express your religion as an indvidual citizen.Right?