Are sexual prohibitions mixing religion and the law?

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How did you get to that conclusion at all?

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I asked at what age is it reasonable to expect a person to successfully manage to defy or resist coersion of a much older (and therefore higher status) person, and this is the age that was given by you.Just because there are some people who are able to consent to full on, penetrative intercourse before the age of 12 doesn't mean that most are, just as regardless of the fact that there may be some 12 or 13 year olds who are able to pass the physical requirements for entrance into the armed services, we don't allow all 12 year olds to enter the armed services. Similarly, just because there may be a few 8 year olds who are physically and mentally able to operate a motor vehicle safely, we don't allow all 8 year olds to drive.I think that the age of consent law should be at an age at which it is reasonable to expect most children to be able to read and understand a drug test result, and have the confidence to require it of their potential partner.I think 14 is a pretty good age.

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That would be up to the army, not me. If you are asking do I personally think 15 yos should be able to work as a soldier I would say no.

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OK, so you do believe that age of consent is sometimes important.

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This does not change the fact that age of consent laws are not involved with this issue.

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Of course it is! We do not allow children to sign up for the armed services not because they all would not pass the physical because we know that some would. We do not let them because we consider such a descision a serious one that a child is not prepared to make due to a lack of perspective or experience or maturity.That's what age of consent laws are all about, and that is exactly why we do not allow children in the army.Some 15 year olds may be ready, physically and mentally, to serve in the armed forces. Why not lower the age of consent for entry into the armed forces so that those who are ready may serve?For that matter, why not remove the age of consent laws WRT legal contracts with minors? Or child labor laws, as long as the parents give consent?

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1) I did not say parents would be the sole arbiters of when a child could have sex. The child would also have the ability to turn down sex.

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But is it reasonable to expect a child to refuse sex in marriage if they never got to choose anything at all regarding that marriage?Do you really think that the power dynamics between an adult and a 5 year old favor the child?Let's say they have been given to an adult as a spouse when in infancy and have been trained by this spouse since infancy that they must submit to any and all sexual advances, and this child, since infancy, has been dependent upon this adult spouse for everything.Is it reasonable to expect that this child will believe they even have the option to refuse?

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My suggestion was that parents would be able to say no, even if a child said yes, to some sexual partner. It shifts power away from the state, to the family.

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Parents can say no to any sexual partner now. The people we need to protect are the children who's parents would say "yes" to the above scenario.

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2) Your idea that marriage from an early age (lets say infancy) is sexual slavery because it is before a child can choose is arbitrary and linked to your obsession with sex.

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Sexual slavery = being owned and used and controled by another person for the purpose of their sexual gratification.

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What else can children be made a part of and forced to do by parents, before they have the capacity to choose?

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Lots of things. They are "forced" to not stick their fingers into light sockets, "forced" to learn to read, "forced" to not run into a busy street.

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Unless you are going to have rules saying the child cannot refuse sex (which is allowed in any marriage), or that the child cannot divorce (which is allowed in any marriage), I am uncertain how this could count as slavery. Inded how would you know that within whatever theoretical culture you are referring to the child does not end up liking the arrangement?

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They might. I'm sure that some people ended up liking lots of things that affected the rest of their lives in major ways, like arranged marriages, that they did not have a choice in. But that's not the point.The point is, at what age is it reasonable to expect a child to understand the risks and consequences of engaging in full on penetrative intercourse?Just because some might be ready at 8 doesn't mean most will be, just as some, but not most, 8 year olds might be fully capbable of operating a motor vehicle. Just because some are capable doesn't mean that should let all of them do it.

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3) I like how it is a she. You do know that boys are also targets of prearranged marriages, right?

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Yes, but in those cultures where this is common, little boys are usually married to little girls, not adult women, because the reason for most arranged marriages is to remove the financial burden of a female child, or to cement political ties between families.

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That is to ignore the drastically different conditions between modern warfare and sex.

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Sure, and voting and purchasing alcohol are two drastically different activities, yet we have minimum age requirements for those, too.

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The fact that you could try to equate the two situations is absurd.

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The fact is you are making a strawman out of my argument.Never have I equated modern warfare and sex. I was using the minimum age of conscription as an example of why we have "arbitrary" AOC laws for anything at all. What I said was:

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This does not change the fact that age of consent laws are not involved with this issue.

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...and exactly why we set an AOC law regarding sexual activity.At least, that's why I think it is reasonable to have one.Do you disagree that the descision to have sex, as in full on, penetrative intercourse, requires some minimum level of perspective, experience, and maturity (and perhaps education)?

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Indeed unlike sex, there does appear to be causal connection between violence and psychological problems. Of course I imagine you are more likely to allow your kids to play with guns than a vibrator.

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Yeah, and I imagine that you would invite all your friends to enjoy your 12 year old son's nice, tight anus.See, I can imagine all sorts of insulting things about you, too.Perhaps you could stop with the ad hominems?And by the way, why do you constantly shift away from my examples of adults having sex with children and shifting to children having sexual contact or play with other children?I actually have no problem with children of similar ages fooling around or experimenting. And I do think that a 18 year old having sex with their 15 year old partner is not a problem. It's the 40 year old teacher having sex with the 12 year old student that is the problem. It is the 26 year old having sex with the 7 year old that is the problem.

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There is no inherent problem with a person of any age getting sexual satisfaction from someone else of any age, as long as they are not damaging them physically.

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I know that this is your opinion, and I expect you believe that you have reached this opinion without any personal bias.I am sorry, but I am just not convinced that this is true, and I believe that you are oversimplifying the issues.We will have to agree to disagree.Now you may commence with the condecention and pity.

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Apparently you have not been around a monkey cage at the zoo. They have hands. They have females. They make choices.

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So do the females.As in, just because there are female monkeys around doesn't mean that the females are letting the males have penetrative intercourse as often as the males would like.Therefore, the males might be masturbating not because they prefer it but because the females are rejecting their advances.

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I'm sorry, are you claiming that masturbation among male monkeys is always because female monkeys don't want it?

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No. Not always.That's why I used the word "might" in my statement: I hope that this clears up your mistake regarding what I wrote.

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You must be because that is the only way your point would mean anything against my point.

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Not true.You said, essentially, that the reason male monkeys choose to masturbate even though there are females around is because they prefer that to penetrative intercourse.I was simply bringing up the obvious point that female monkeys are not neccessarily receptive to every single male monkey's sexual advances in every single instance.Indeed, very few species of animal, including many monkey species, have females which engage in much, if any, sexual interaction, including penetrative intercourse, when they are not "in heat". This is not true of male monkeys and other species, which are usually ready to mate at all times.

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And of course there is no truth to that absolutist idea at all.

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Oh yeah? Ever seen a mare kick the shit out of a stallion that tries to mate with her before she is interested? I have.However, if you can tell me which species of mammal, other than a few higher primates, in which the females commonly mate even when they are not "in heat", I'd be very surprised.

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Monkeys masturbate. I cannot say what any particular monkey would most love, but they do masturbate even among populations which include receptive females.

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I never said they didn't.However, how do you know that the females are receptive?

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Intriguingly female bonobos (and maybe other monkeys) also engage in sexual acts, sometimes nonpenetrative acts.

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Sure, but that's Bonobos. They are very special, just as we humans are, because they engage in sex when the females are not in heat.But I doubt that is true for most primate species, including monkeys.

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Do you really hate sex and men that much that you project male monkey masturbation as a sign of victory over sexual repression by female monkeys?

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Yes holmes, I really do.You really do need to get over yourself.

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Are you serious? Have you watched bonobos or other monkeys?

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Yes, I'm serious.Do you really believe that most or any primate species have a similar social structure to the Bonobos?? Do I have to remind you that Bonobos are apes, not monkeys? (Hint: monkeys have tails, apes do not)I really do think you should tell us how you know a female of a particular species of monkey is receptive to penetrative intercourse.

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The fact that a couple of bozos in San Diego were capable of becoming millionaires simply by walking down the boardwalk with a video camera and merely asking the women to do what they do is fairly indicative of how free sex can be for straight people. No money, no request for favors, no contact at all beyond what it takes to get them in front of the camera.

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If you are referring to those "Girls Gone Wild" videos, it's pretty well known that most, if not all in some cases, of the young women depicted in them are hired ahead of time and brought along on the shoot by the video makers. here's the casting call ad