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Author Topic:   Mathematics and Nature
JustinC
Member (Idle past 4875 days)
Posts: 624
From: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Joined: 07-21-2003


Message 8 of 90 (268700)
12-13-2005 8:09 AM


I found this quote by Andrew Pickering:
It is unproblematic that scientists produce accounts of the world that they find comprehensible: given their cultural resources, only a singular incompetence could have prevented members of the physics community from producing an understandable version of reality at any point in their history. And, given their extensive training and sophisticated mathematical techniques, the preponderance of mathematics in particle physicists' account of reality is no more hard to explain than the fondness of ethnic groups for their native language
Thoughts? Are you guys (Son and Cavediver) getting an understanding of some deeper reality, or are you just creating a "myth for our times?"

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Dr Jack, posted 12-13-2005 8:28 AM JustinC has replied
 Message 10 by cavediver, posted 12-13-2005 8:45 AM JustinC has replied

  
JustinC
Member (Idle past 4875 days)
Posts: 624
From: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Joined: 07-21-2003


Message 15 of 90 (268745)
12-13-2005 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by cavediver
12-13-2005 8:45 AM


quote:
Ha ha, I would expect so much better from him. It is not the "preponderance of mathematics in particle physicists' account of reality " that is surprising. It is the utter simplicity of the fundemental physics when couched in mathematical terms: both particle physics and GR. No-one would have been too surprised if these areas turned out to be tractable using existing mathematics, given the history of mathematics and physics, but the simplicity is astounding and unprecedented in scientific enquiry.
Is the fact that it is modeled simplistically simply a result that science tries to model things as simply as possible?
But if your argument is that simplicity of fundamental physics is unreasonable, doesn't it suffer from the ambiguities of "simple"? I certaintly don't find theoretical physics simple, but then again I have never studied it beyond college level physics II. I just don't think an argument the hinges on the notion of simple is very effective.
On the other hand, are you referring to the fact that it is unreasonable that the universe is so "simple" that humans can come to have a good understanding of it in a lifetime?
And earlier, when I said "myth of our time" that was just a nod to a book I read by Gribbon. I know science makes good predictions about the world, but does that mean it is a more "real" depiction of reality than any other one? Can there be empirically equivalent theories?
That may be for the "Theory Evolution" thread though.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by cavediver, posted 12-13-2005 8:45 AM cavediver has not replied

  
JustinC
Member (Idle past 4875 days)
Posts: 624
From: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Joined: 07-21-2003


Message 16 of 90 (268746)
12-13-2005 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Dr Jack
12-13-2005 8:28 AM


quote:
Try this easy experiment. Build a transistor. Model it according to QM. Compare and contrast the results.
Science is not a myth for our time. Interpretations of what the numbers mean are (I, incidently, think the idea of mathematics as the underlying reality is absurd).
Don't you need to interpret what the numbers mean in order to apply them to the world?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Dr Jack, posted 12-13-2005 8:28 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Dr Jack, posted 12-13-2005 10:54 AM JustinC has not replied

  
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