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Author Topic:   Biblical Long Term Solution To The Following Diseases
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 111 (280692)
01-22-2006 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Chiroptera
01-21-2006 9:31 PM


Re: it only takes once.
Chiroptera writes:
And it wasn't even directed toward him, neither.
No, but shall we say, foul do do, stinking up my thread?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Chiroptera, posted 01-21-2006 9:31 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 111 (281080)
01-23-2006 11:01 PM


General Reply
I'm getting all this flack about this form of deviation and that form. You people are obfuscating by complicating the proposition of the OP, which advocates abstinence of these three, PERIOD.
OK, let me simplify the proposition as set forth in the Levitical law of the Bible. Here it is, and mind you, it was for the nation of Israel so as for Jehovah God to SANCTIFY and PRESERVE a nation on planet earth by which he was to establish a future messianic kingdom ON EARTH. In order to preserve this nation, there had to be some rigid rules of conduct FOR THE GOOD OF THE JEWS and for their long term survival. Here was the deal:
1. NO FORNICATION
2. NO ADULTERY
3. NO SODOMY, (I.E. HOMOSEXUALITY, AS PER MY DICTIONARY)
PUNISHMENT FOR ANY OF THE ABOVE = DEATH!!
GOD'S OBJECTIVE: STDs A RARITY AT THE MAX FOR THE PRESERVATION AND WELL BEING OF THE PEOPLE OF GOD, THE NATION OF ISRAEL REGARDING THEIR SEXUAL CONDUCT.
AT TIMES WHEN THE NATION DISOBEYED THE LAW, THEY WERE SCATTERED FROM BEING A NATION BUT PROMISE OF RESTORATION FOR MILLENIAL KINGDOM.
IS THE ABOVE MEDICALLY SCIENTIFIC?
NOTE: There was no "if this or if that" with God. It was, "one strike and your're out!!"
(It appears that Admins NWR and WOUNDED were right when they advised that I elaborate more in the OP, but one doesn't always forsee and forknow how discussions will progress.)

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-23-2006 11:10 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 58 by jar, posted 01-23-2006 11:34 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 59 by Ben!, posted 01-23-2006 11:40 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 60 by PaulK, posted 01-24-2006 2:34 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 61 by crashfrog, posted 01-24-2006 9:34 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 62 by Chiroptera, posted 01-24-2006 9:50 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 63 by Omnivorous, posted 01-24-2006 9:50 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 65 by AdminWounded, posted 01-24-2006 4:52 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 66 of 111 (281361)
01-24-2006 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by jar
01-23-2006 11:34 PM


Re: Still mixing up stuff and making unsupported assertions
jar writes:
Im all my years of bible study I've never come across the passages where GOD says he wants to minimize STDs. You are making an assertion here with absolutely no support that I can tell.
If in all your years of Bible study you've never understood that God is preserving a Zionistic Jewish nation for his kingdom, you best get back studying. Simple logic says minimizing STDs factors in bigtime in this regard.
jar writes:
Maybe in your dictionary, but as everyone has pointed out to you, homosexuality is NOT a prime vector for transmitting STDs, and any of the practices carry exactly the same risk whether between two people of the same sex or a bisexual encounter.
From the stats I read, Aids in the US is about 8 times greater among gay men than among heterosexuals.
jar writes:
In addition, you have not addressed the fact that the initial cause in any chain will be infection from a source other than sexual.
1. I'm not sure that's been proven in all cases.
2. Even if it's true, abstinence of the three deviances mentioned would greatly minimize it's chance of spreading.

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by jar, posted 01-23-2006 11:34 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by jar, posted 01-24-2006 10:03 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 74 by PaulK, posted 01-25-2006 2:46 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 67 of 111 (281364)
01-24-2006 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Ben!
01-23-2006 11:40 PM


Re: General Reply
Ben writes:
No.
In 1997, there were about 532,980 cases of gonnhorea in the USA. In Japan, there were less than 9000.
Unless you think Americans are 60X more promiscuous than Japanese, then your oversimplified analysis is not scientific.
There are other factors. See previous posts for suggestions on what other factors may be involved, and what questions need to be answered.
1. No capital punishment in either US or Japan for promiscuousness. Apples and oranges to Levitical law senario.
2. I am thinking that Americans are highly more promiscuous than japanese.
3. Americans consume far more junk food than Japanese which compounds any health problem.

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Ben!, posted 01-23-2006 11:40 PM Ben! has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by nator, posted 01-24-2006 10:01 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 68 of 111 (281369)
01-24-2006 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by PaulK
01-24-2006 2:34 AM


Re: General Reply
PaulK writes:
No, it's not scientific. The death penalty is justifiable on scientific grounds. The ban on sodomy if it only refers to male homosexuality rather than a general ban on anal intercourse is pointless on the grounds that anally penetrating a female is equally risky and because if the fornication and adultery rules actually worked there would be no need to ban anal intercourse at all.
1. Are you serious? In my 47 years of marriage I've never considered endangering my wife's health and dirtying myself up in her feces when there's the proper and ever so wonderful provision for this activity! YUK!! I'm very confident that the Jewish folks under the Levitical law were above such deviant activity as are most civilized heterosexuals.
PaulK writes:
Likely Polygamy and remarriages would have undermined the effects of bans on fornication and adultery. Quite frankly the penalty of "scattering" the people for disobedience seems to have been a greater threat to the supposed objective than the behaviour being banned (as shown by the fact that only the tribes of the kingdom of Judah are still around). And as far as I know, none of the peoples of the Near East in that period were wiped out or even seriously weakened by STDs.
Why do you think the Jews, having been scattered for nearly two milleniums have held their identiy as Jews so as to return to Israel as identifiable Jews, re-establishing the nation? They've had to be quite family oriented to achieve this highly unlikely phenomenon.
PaulK writes:
It's also unBiblical. There is no indication that the rules were instituted with the idea of controlling STDs in the Bible.
It is highly Biblically implied. See my reply to Jar.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by PaulK, posted 01-24-2006 2:34 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by nator, posted 01-24-2006 10:05 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 73 by PaulK, posted 01-25-2006 2:23 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 111 (281620)
01-25-2006 11:54 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by crashfrog
01-24-2006 9:34 AM


Re: General Reply
crashfrog writes:
Advice that is impossible or impractical to follow has no medical validity. The "cure" for the common cold, after all, is to never contract a cold virus. But the reason that's not the advice of doctors is because avoiding cold viruses requires a life spent in immunological isolation, which is impossible or impractical for just about everyone.
1. What is so impossible or impractical about abstaining from fornication, adultery or sodomy (homosexuality as per definition for centuries as per intended definition in the OP.} I have found it neither impossible or impractical in my 70 years, including four years in the Air Force. Besides, both my wife and I know that through sickness or health, through poverty or prosperity and through sorrow or joy, til death do part, we belong to each other.
2. As for the culture of the Levitical law, if you knew that deviation from the abstinence meant death by stoning, it became very possible and practical to abstain from all three.
crashfrog writes:
Homosexuals are not "sodomites"; anal sex is an act much more likely to be done by straight couples than gay ones.
It is a Biblical term used in reference to male homosexuals. In Deuteronomy 23:17 it says "there shall be no prostitues among the daughters of Israel nor sodomites of the sons of Israel." Now we know that Israelites weren't citizens of Sodom, for Sodom was destroyed long before this cited reference, so it had to have been in reference to MMS which my dictionary defines sodomy as.

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by crashfrog, posted 01-24-2006 9:34 AM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by nator, posted 01-26-2006 7:57 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 80 of 111 (281628)
01-26-2006 12:31 AM


This is drifting off topic, but for what it's worth, the stats in two cites I checked said the out of wedlock births in Japan were less than 2 percent as compared to over 30 percent in the US. However I understand that of late years, the high regard for virginity has waned/is waning considerably in Japan.

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Ben!, posted 01-26-2006 1:57 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 85 of 111 (281849)
01-26-2006 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by nator
01-26-2006 7:57 AM


Re: General Reply
Shrafinator writes:
How are you going to instantly stop all rape, buz?
1. This is getting waaaay off topic. This topic is not about the Japanese or how to stop rape, et al. It's about whether the Biblical Levitical law regarding sex is medically scientific relative to prevention of STDs listed in the long haul.
2. If you read the title of this thread it's not about instantly stopping anything. Note the phrase, "long term" in the title.

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by nator, posted 01-26-2006 7:57 AM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by crashfrog, posted 01-26-2006 10:09 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 88 of 111 (281862)
01-26-2006 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Chiroptera
01-24-2006 9:50 AM


Re: General Reply
Chiroptera writes:
No. The reason is that you have taken a continuum of behavior, namely complete promiscuity to complete celibacy, and have chosen one arbitrary point on that continuum. Furthermore, you have ignored complications to this continuum, like the regular use of prophylaxis, regular health screenings, and the like. You have chosen this one arbitrary set of behaviors because an implicit idea of what is "good" or "referrable", value judgements that are not part of any scientific investigation.
1. Say what? Complete promiscuity to complete celibacy? How did you read this into my OP or subsequent posts?
2. Regular use of prophylatics to achieve prophylaxis (I assume that's what you mean by "regular use of") is off topic here. This thread is about abstinence relative to prophylaxis/prevention of disease.
3. I have chosen this arbitrary set of behavior because this is the Biblical one which I wish to address as to whether it is medically scientific for the long term prevention of STDs listed in the OP. How many times do I need to repeat what this thread is about?
Chiroptera writes:
A future messianic kingdom is the concern of neither science nor medicine.
It is a concern if you keep it in the context in which I used it. Without going back, I believe it I was responding to someone as to how this Levitical mandate was relative to prevention of disease and that God implemented it as a factor in the preservation of a nation to become his kingdom on earth.

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Chiroptera, posted 01-24-2006 9:50 AM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Chiroptera, posted 01-30-2006 6:33 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 89 of 111 (281863)
01-26-2006 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by crashfrog
01-26-2006 10:09 PM


Re: General Reply
crashfrog writes:
What's your long-term plan for preventing all rapes, then?
OFF TOPIC! Start your own thread if you wish to talk about prevention of rape, (Abe: which offense, btw, also carried the capital punishment.} PLEASE REREAD THE TITLE AND OP!
This message has been edited by buzsaw, 01-26-2006 10:51 PM

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by crashfrog, posted 01-26-2006 10:09 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Funkaloyd, posted 01-26-2006 11:30 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 90 of 111 (281866)
01-26-2006 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Iblis
01-26-2006 10:08 PM


Re: General Reply
Iblis, me friend, you did good in your post until you got here.
Iblis writes:
Please, comply with the rules of the forum and go out and get some rocks and kill everyone who disagrees with Buz's sexual rules right now without any further logical arguments, or this topic might get closed
No, PLEASE, COMPLY WITH THE Forum Guidelines and STOP DERAILING MY THREAD!
Iblis writes:
Come on Buz, seriously, what kind of medical advice includes throwing rocks at people but considers disease vectors irrelevant?
1. I said nothing in my OP solution about killing anyone did I? The question was whether abstinence of the three deviant sexual practices as a prevention/solution to the problem of STDs listed.
Though the capital punishment factor likely would be an incentive for abstinence, it has nothing to do medically or scientifically as to whether the abstinence from the deviations work to prevent disease. It is the abstinence factor that is addressed in the OP. As to the question of justness of the punishment, that is another topic.
Iblis writes:
You are the one who made this thread what it is, the only thing you would consider on topic is absolute agreement,
How so? I've presented God's Biblical Levitical solution for the Israelites and asked the question. You all have two choices for answers, either "yes" or "no." The problem is that all who've said "no" create off topic strawmen for their reasons rather than forthrightly reading the propostition set forth in the OP and answering on the merits of the OP proposition. Your real problem appears to be that you don't like the correct answer, for to own up to the reality of it would be to admit that something in the Bible is medically scientific regarding STDs.
Iblis writes:
that devalues the topic rules entirely and once the rules have no value no one feels a need to obey them. Why should they? So long as we are off-topic anyway, we might as well talk about Nipponese hookers and their soul-mates, at least they are relevant to our contemporary lives
But don't you understand, my friend, that this topic is not about something contemporary? It has solely to do with whether God's prophilaxis, if you will, is/was medically scientific for the long haul.
Soul mates off topic. Do your own thread on it if that's what you wish to discuss.

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Iblis, posted 01-26-2006 10:08 PM Iblis has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 92 of 111 (281871)
01-26-2006 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by AdminWounded
01-24-2006 4:52 PM


Re: General Reply
AdminWounded writes:
Except me and NWR of course, you should have put your Admin hat on so you too might have been imbued with the neccessary prophetic powers.
.....Or better yet, maybe I should have put my Admin hat on and placed my own 'is it science' topic in the Is It Science Forum.

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by AdminWounded, posted 01-24-2006 4:52 PM AdminWounded has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 93 of 111 (281879)
01-26-2006 11:51 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Funkaloyd
01-26-2006 11:30 PM


Re: General Reply
Funkaloyd writes:
Rape is fornication, in most cases. If you can't stop all non-marital rape, then you don't have a chance in Hell of stopping all instances of fornication.
Thanks for trying, my friend, but given the rape offense was also punishable by death, a very miniscule percentage of deviations would be by rape. This would not likely be a long haul problem. Even without the capital punishment, a very small percentage of deviations or SDIs would be rape related diseases.

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Funkaloyd, posted 01-26-2006 11:30 PM Funkaloyd has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by crashfrog, posted 01-27-2006 9:30 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 98 by nator, posted 01-27-2006 9:49 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 95 of 111 (281978)
01-27-2006 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by crashfrog
01-27-2006 9:30 AM


Re: General Reply
CF, please reread the OP. If you want to discuss rape, I repeat: start your own thread. I've shown where what you want to discuss has no significant bearing on the OP of this thread.

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by crashfrog, posted 01-27-2006 9:30 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by crashfrog, posted 01-27-2006 1:35 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 97 of 111 (282055)
01-27-2006 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by crashfrog
01-27-2006 1:35 PM


Alleged Rape Significance
Copy and paste exactly what in the OP to which your rape stuff applies and I'll respond. Keep in mind that your points must factor significantly in the long term as per the topic title.

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by crashfrog, posted 01-27-2006 1:35 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by crashfrog, posted 01-27-2006 11:14 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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