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Author | Topic: Why was Cain's sacrifice unacceptable? | |||||||||||||||||||||
DeclinetoState Member (Idle past 6468 days) Posts: 158 Joined: |
Genesis 4, NLT:
Now Adam* slept with his wife, Eve, and she became pregnant. When the time came, she gave birth to Cain,* and she said, "With the Lord's help, I have brought forth* a man!" 2 Later she gave birth to a second son and named him Abel. When they grew up, Abel became a shepherd, while Cain was a farmer. 3 At harvesttime Cain brought to the Lord a gift of his farm produce, 4 while Abel brought several choice lambs from the best of his flock. The Lord accepted Abel and his offering, 5 but he did not accept Cain and his offering. This made Cain very angry and dejected.
Did God reject Cain's offering because it wasn't the best of his crops, or was it because, unlike Abel's, it was not a blood offering? I tend to think the former, because the description of Abel's offering implies that it was of the best: "And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof." (KJV) However, many prefer to think the latter is the case, perhaps because God had cursed the ground before he drove Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden (Gen. 3:17).
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DeclinetoState Member (Idle past 6468 days) Posts: 158 Joined: |
Could this story simply have been a setup for the people who descended from Cain and how they came to be where and who they are?
Possibly. Yet it would seem that the lineage of Cain was academic, since (presumably) all of his descendants were wiped out at the flood. Noah's ancestry is traced from Adam through Seth, Cain's brother.
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DeclinetoState Member (Idle past 6468 days) Posts: 158 Joined: |
arachnophilia writes: Nowadays, can we even imagine god appearing and telling us to wage a holy war...
ask our president. Actually, ask the Muslims. I think there are a lot of people (Ann Coulter, e.g.) who wish we were engaged in a "Holy War" against Islam. I don't think Bush is one of them, however. Somebody brought up a point above, however, that is interesting. If blood sacrifices were only required for serious sins, and Abel hadn't committed a serious sin yet, wasn't his blood sacrifice (if indeed it was a blood sacrifice; Gen 4:4 simply refers to it as an "offering" [KJV, NKJV, NASB]) inappropriate?
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DeclinetoState Member (Idle past 6468 days) Posts: 158 Joined: |
arachnophilia writes: i don't think ann coulter is either, i think she's all show. besides, she's dating a muslim.
But remember the comment she made in her column about killing all the Muslims in Afghanistan and/or converting them to Christianity? I was not aware of her dating a Muslim, though I know she has dated or been rumored to be dating (or even having sex with) Geraldo Rivera and Bill Maher, neither one what you'd call a flaming right-winger.
arachnophilia writes: most sacrifices in the bible are offerings. offerings are generally made of a person's free will, not punishment.
A sacrifice may be an offering, but is an offering a sacrifice? A vampire bat is a bat, but not all bats are vampire bats.
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DeclinetoState Member (Idle past 6468 days) Posts: 158 Joined: |
Ringo writes: Maybe He should have specifically told them not to rape the women? There's a lot of "Do this, don't do that" during the Conquest. If He knew it was going to happen, why didn't He prevent it?
I assume this is in response to the Zechariah prophecy. I think the prophet is trying to say that God would remove his protection from the Israelites, and they would not be protected from anything that happened, moral or immoral.
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DeclinetoState Member (Idle past 6468 days) Posts: 158 Joined: |
arachnophilia writes: A sacrifice may be an offering, but is an offering a sacrifice? A vampire bat is a bat, but not all bats are vampire bats. i'm not sure what your point is. Nor do I quite see what the point made below is:
most sacrifices in the bible are offerings. offerings are generally made of a person's free will, not punishment. Was Abel's offering really a "sacrifice"? Saying that a (or most, or even every) sacrifice was an offering does not necessarily mean that every offering was a sacrifice. Never overestimate the intelligence of someone who thinks you're wrong.
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DeclinetoState Member (Idle past 6468 days) Posts: 158 Joined: |
Skimming through the discussions made in this thread (I tended to skip over those that seemed to be full of personal attacks and/or off-topic), I'd like to get back to the points that started this and have been touched upon by others:
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DeclinetoState Member (Idle past 6468 days) Posts: 158 Joined: |
Jehovah's Witnesses believe Abel was the first "witness." (Later ones would have included Noah, Abraham, Jeremiah, Jesus, etc.) If we think of Abel as a "witness" (irrespective of what we may think of the modern-day religious organization), does that affect our understanding of why God found his sacrifice or offering acceptable but rejected Cain's?
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DeclinetoState Member (Idle past 6468 days) Posts: 158 Joined: |
quote: They probably also taught them how to put on their clothes. Obviously, anything in Leviticus is irrelevant here, unless it can somehow be shown to be based on something in the GoE or the Cain and Abel story. Leviticus was for the Levites, was it not?
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DeclinetoState Member (Idle past 6468 days) Posts: 158 Joined: |
It seems that, looking at some of the recent posts that have managed to stay on-topic, we're back where we started. God liked Abel's offering, but didn't like Cain's--that we can agree on. But as to why God liked one and disliked the other, we can't say for sure why.
Whether Abel's offering was a blood sacrifice is not even certain; we can be sure Cain's wasn't. Even if Abel's was a blood sacrifice, we can't be sure that God rejected Cain's because it wasn't a blood sacrifice. It's possible that Cain's sacrifice was rejected simply because he did it grudgingly, or because he didn't offer up his best. BTW, here's another point that perhaps has been brought up, but between the on-topic and off-topic posts, I can't recall seeing anything about it: How did God reveal to Abel that He had accepted his offering? How did He reveal to Cain that He hadn't accepted Cain's offering? Never overestimate the intelligence of someone who thinks you're wrong.
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DeclinetoState Member (Idle past 6468 days) Posts: 158 Joined: |
Presumably, Abel received some unspecified reward from God (but it wasn't enough to keep him from being clobbered by his brother), while Cain either received no reward or was forced to suffer in some way.
Is there any evidence, either in the Bible or elsewhere, of how God communicated his acceptance of the offering from Abel and his non-acceptance of Cain's offering? In other words, how did Cain know that God had not accepted his offering? Did God say, "Good job, Abel," and/or "Better luck next time, Cain"?
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