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Author | Topic: Why was Cain's sacrifice unacceptable? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
ramoss Member (Idle past 643 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
You seem to obsess a lot about 'blood' sacrifice. That is not very biblical. The torah does not say directly, but I have to agree that
Abel gave the best, and cain gave second best. Throught the entire Tankah, it is shown that blood sacrifice is not the only accepted sacrifice, and indeed is often not the prefered sacrifice.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 643 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
It all depends on what you mean. It probably was trying to explain why people are everyplace. Sometimes, trying to find a deeper meaning just leads you up a false path, or just reinforces a preconception you already have, rather than the point of the story.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 643 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Yes, but there is an overemphasis on BLOOD sacrifice by the CHristians. If you read the bible, blood sacrifice is only for sins that are unwittling commited against another (Leviticus 4:2, 13, 22, 27; 5:5, 15 and Numbers 15:30), Intentional sin can only be atoned for through repentance, unaccompanied by a blood sacrifice (Psalms 32:5, 51:16-19).
There is also the offering of Grain (Lev 5:11-13), of gold (NUM 31:50)and of the burning of incense. ALl those have to do with repentance and prayer also. Also see Hosea 14:3. Honest prayer and repentance is worth more than the sacrifice of a bull. The main thing about sacrifice was NOT what it ws so much, as the person atoning for their actions was giving up something to recompensate for their wrong doing (intentional or not) It had to beaccompanied by honest desire to change, and prayer. This is why that in my opinion the cains sacfrifice was not acceptable. He showed he did not have the right attitude by giving the second of his labors..
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ramoss Member (Idle past 643 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
No,
Abel gave up something valuable to him (a fine piece of lifestock), rather than the seconds (the fruit that lay on the ground). That is what is important to sacrifice. The giving up of something that is important to you, and the attitude that goes with it.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 643 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
One point.
Isaiah was not talking about a future messiah. In the 7-8, he was specificlaly talking about how his son was going to be a sign to king Ahaz. In Isaiah 53, he was talking ABOUT Israel.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 643 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Let's take that to the other thread. Then we can discuss it in CONTEXT.
This particular thread is not about Isaiah, but Cain's sacrifice.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 643 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
If you belive it was written during that time period, how do you explain the anacrohisms in exodus?
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ramoss Member (Idle past 643 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Jesus had nothing to do with the story in Genesis. It was not a prophecy for the future. The writer of the stories in Genesis were not looking for a human sacrifice to 'redeem' the world to come later.
To fully understand Genesis, you have to look at Genesis in context with Genesis, not with what some people tried to tie into Genesis 800 years later.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 643 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
This is really the crux of the argument. That is are the books of the Bible totally isolated and seperated self contained units which have nothing to do with each other? Or are the books unified under a common theme and overall scheme?
If you want to discuss a later book, you can discuss on how an earlier book has influenced the thinking in it. However, it is not valid to say a later book has influenced an earlier book. That being said.. nothing that is mentioned in Isaiah, or Luke or Paulinfluenced the beliefs of the writer of Genesis. To understand what the writer(s) of Genesis though about Cain, we have to understand his worldview. What did he believe? what was his assumptions? what did he want to convey?
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ramoss Member (Idle past 643 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Well, you are mixing up a whole bunch of different viewpoints that various writers. The viewpoints of the various writers do not neccesearily be accumulative.
Let's look at the viewpoint of the writer of Hebrewes.
"By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain ..."
The writer of hebrews stressed that is it by FAITH.. in otherwards, just like Ringo has brought up. Cain's sacrifice was not 'as excellent' because of the attitude (Faith) in which it was offered. Then, let us look at John.
[qs]
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ramoss Member (Idle past 643 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Well, you are mixing up a whole bunch of different viewpoints that various writers. The viewpoints of the various writers do not neccesearily be accumulative.
Let's look at the viewpoint of the writer of Hebrewes.
"By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain ..."
The writer of hebrews stressed that is it by FAITH.. in otherwards, just like Ringo has brought up. Cain's sacrifice was not 'as excellent' because of the attitude (Faith) in which it was offered. Then, let us look at John.
... not as Cain was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his works were evil, and his brother's, righteous" (1 John 3:12)
Now, here you are mixing up cause and effect. Cain was jealous becausehis sacrifice was not as acceptable. But, it is based on his actions.. and it does not explain WHY his work was evil, but only that it was based on his actions. Part of his actions is the attitude in which is sacrificed. Personally, I think John is full of it... the evil work that cain did was become jealous of being less favored because of his bad attitude. You have to remember that 'rightousness' and 'evil' in the Jewish faith is based on actions, not faith. Judiasm is a works based religion, and many of the concepts in Judism that are based on works in judaism is based on faith in Christianity. When analysing particuarly the older books in the Old testament, that has to be taken into account.
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