A Question About Deception

What would constitute "appearance of age" in a corn plant? Radiocarbon dating wouldn't apply, I don't think. There are no rings, etc.How would one empirically determine the age - real or apparent - of that corn plant?I think it's a false analogy. A better analogy would be a tree that grows to a one-foot diameter in one day - complete with rings that give the appearance of many years' growth. Then, after that one day, the tree would grow at a rate of one ring per year.That fits the "appearance of age" scenario better than your corn plant. And the change in ring-production rate - from many in one day to one per year - seems to imply deception.

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You can argue that point in this thread.The point I was making was that an arbitrary change in tree-ring growth rate would be deceptive.We see growth rings appearing two per year. If God had created full-grown trees with multiple rings, already in place, that would suggest to us that the tree was much older - i.e. it would be a deception.My broader point was in relation to Buzsaw's analogy of a one-day-growing corn plant. I pointed out that dating a corn plant would not be that easy (though others mentioned ways of doing it), so I thought tree-rings were a better analogy.

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Would a human father put out a plate of cookies and a sign that says "Eat Me" if he didn't want his children to eat the cookies? Would he expect us to read between the lines and assume that it also meant "except you, Phat"?Would a heavenly Father put fifty rings in a brand-new tree, then grow one ring a year and expect us to read between the lines? Would He expect us to assume that the tree was not as old as He made it appear?

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A human father expects his children to grow up - to figure things out, to question things. Should we expect any less from a heavenly Father?But a human father would not intentionally put traps in his children's way, to fool them into finding the wrong answers. Should we expect any less from a heavenly Father?

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As Adam and Eve "fell", symbolically we all "fall" when we obtain the knowledge of good and evil. That happens about the same time in our lives when we discover that child-bearing (and rearing) is difficult and that we have to work for what we want. That is also about the same time that we begin to question authority.Questioning Authority is harder on the Authority than it is on the questioner. The Parent has "been there" and knows what the pitfalls are. But He didn't put them there - they were already there when He was there.He may sound like He doesn't want us to question Him, but He is glad when we figure out the answers.

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Not necessarily. You're thinking of a virgin who lives in our world, where the knowledge of sex is pervasive. Virginity is little more than a technicality to somebody who "intimately" knows all the details, even if they have never experienced the act. The "innocence" is mostly gone.Adam and Eve had no knowledge whatsoever of good and evil before they ate the fruit. They had never experienced evil so they didn't know what good was. They had no knowledge of good or evil, so eating the fruit was not "wrong".They knew the term "knowledge of good and evil", which is equivalent to knowing that there's a difference between boys and girls. It is not equivalent to knowing about sex.(Of course, the "event" never happened. It's a metaphor for all of us learning the difference between good and evil.)-------------Remind me, what does this have to do with the deception of an old-looking young universe?

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The text indicates that they were told not to eat the fruit, not that they "knew" it was "wrong".Having the knowledge of good and evil (right and wrong) before obtaining the knowledge of good and evil would completely negate the point of the story. Eve ate the fruit because she was completely innocent - she had no way of evaluating the serpent's claim.-------------Remind me again, what does this have to do with the deception of an old-looking young universe?

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Knowledge of yes and no is not the same as knowledge of right and wrong.As I said, the story is about them (us, really) obtaining the knowledge of good and evil. It is nonsensical to pretend that they already had it.

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That's not the same thing.Suppose two-year-old Eve asks for a cookie and mommy says, "No." If daddy gives her a cookie, does she "know" it's "wrong" to take it? All she knows is that mommy doesn't want her to have it.Once again, the concept of "wrong" was completely undefined until after they ate the fruit. There was no punishment. They obtained the knowledge that life was going to be hard (painful child-bearing and rearing, hard work) - just as we all learn about real life when we lose our childlike innocence. Of course they believed it was OK. They had no conception of good and evil, right and wrong, OK and not OK. Once again, that's the point of the story.You might as well argue that Jack already had the giant's magic harp before he ever climbed the beanstock.

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Well, no, it wasn't. It was to remove Adam and Eve from the possibility of eternal life. Along with the knowledge of good and evil comes the realization of mortality, something the innocent two-year-old did not have. Once again, it was the realization that the ground was "cursed" that was new. There was no change in the ground itself, but Adam and Eve came to understand that they had to work to get a living from the ground. The cookies didn't just appear magically in the jar.

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