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Member (Idle past 5849 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Schraf and Satcomm hand in hand against victimless crimes | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Ruth Inactive Member |
Hello Holmes, following this thread has been interesting; you present a fairly thorough argument. Perhaps you can help me to better understand your opinion.
quote: While the acts involved in prostitution are consensual and seemingly harmless, the practice of prostitution is harmful in other indirect ways. It supports the idea that humans can be purchased and used. It is also harmful to the hard won concept that women are more than ‘Comforting Release Technicians’.Also consider a man, who lacks the social skills or esteem to find a sexual partner through conventional means. If a prostitute fulfills his desires, isn’t it harmful to him in the sense he will not overcome his shortcomings? I know these don’t qualify as harm/injury in a criminal sense, I’m just wondering about your opinion. (In response to Schraf)
quote: In most of your examples you seem to imply that they are just looking for a body. You make little reference to companionship, only release. A real living person has a personality. If all that is known about another is what time they are available for sex, there is no known personality and that person is reduced to a real living ‘body’. (Even if they do gasp at the appropriate moments.)
quote: By your definition I guess I’m a prude. I can agree with the concept that you can do what is desirable (and consensual) with someone else when you want to, it’s the part about paying for it that hangs me up.I understand your massage analogy; it is difficult for me as a woman, to remove the intimate, internal aspects of sex in order to equate it with a backrub. quote: Legal or not, it discourages the open ended sexual freedom that you champion. In accepting prostitution you are rejecting this freedom because you advocate paying for a service, not simply enjoying an unfettered sexual experience. Sex is innate; trading sex for money does not seem to be innate. Ruth
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Ruth Inactive Member |
quote: The difference to me is in the labeling of sex as a service in the first place. It is a consensual act between thinking creatures, not some object that needs to be fixed, and not some twisted birthright. All said, I would have to concede that an individual can rent or sell a part of themselves for money if they desire, it is their body. Surrogate mothers and blood donors are technically in this same group.
quote: I place more value on my ‘piano’, and it is a bit more than a sentimental attachment. I am thinking this over, but have to run, later, Ruth
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Ruth Inactive Member |
quote: The fundamental difference is that I don’t view sex as commodity. Prostitution is, however temporary, the purchase of another human’s body. It is true that a cook, dancer, masseuse, or singer use their body to provide a service. In prostitution the client is directly using the providers body and to me is incompatible with fundamental human rights.The case of the happy working girl may be an exception but I think it is more of a rarity. quote: How many cooks, singers, or dancers are in the slave market? Prostitution is on the rise because it is frequently a last resort for many poor women around the world. I agree attitudes must change, this includes the attitude that supports using others bodies in whatever manner as long as you reciprocate with cash.You want to compartmentalize the problem to ‘white’ markets. I don’t think this is realistic because the mere existence of white markets virtually guarantees a black counterpart. Say prostitution becomes legal worldwide tomorrow and many white operations open their doors. There would still be many unregulated and dangerous operations. Trafficking in humans supposedly represents the world's 3rd largest criminal activity (after drugs and weapons.) The miscellaneous agencies aren’t suppressing these operations now, what makes you think they can handle the regulation involved?Would most patrons choose the $250.regulated shop over the $50.unregulated shop that is likely around the corner? Advocating prostitution encourages all of the negative characteristics of the sex industry (child/slave) because it encourages the idea of buying a body for personal use, even if you personally only think of it as entertainment.
quote: No, but it deters the practice in some small degree.Prostitution is a key factor in the spread of HIV, the fear of contracting this has the clients fueling a younger and younger market. The practitioners and clients need much more education before you could allow legality, I suppose you expect that regulation would counter this. All clients and providers would have to always engage in protected sex. Do you think this is a reasonable expectation for an industry that thrives on ‘having it your way’? Do you think an open market would pay the desperate women who are already engaged any more than it does now? quote: It seems more symbolic of pacification, not conscious trade; I’ll have to read more on it.
quote: I would think male and female have contributed to trade in sexuality and it is unnecessary and speculative to argue either side.
quote: I’ve yet to read through all of your links and I do intend to, but I think you do have an unrealistic outlook. To cripple the bad markets you would have to offer some alternative to the desperate women involved. These markets are not full of women that choose prostitution as a career. Poverty stricken areas and areas involved in conflict create even more sexual violence, more displaced people, more orphans and more prostitutes. You would need a very far-reaching economic plan to really eliminate the shady markets.
quote: And I’m saying that prostitution encourages the disregard for those boundaries. It encourages dehumanization and sexual exploitation. I respect your boundaries as you respect mine and try to be objective about the majority mentality.
quote: You seem to think that legalization will open the minds of the masses. I think it is somewhat of a responsibility to protect human dignity, I never really thought of it as a case of majority rule.
quote: Are most prostitutes in it for the freedom first or simply in it for the money? Statements about job satisfaction are laughable when you step outside of the white area.How will physical appearance effect an open market? I think that if you place regulations and remove the stigma prostitution will still encourage unsavory practices. Maybe more because you are removing the flimsy moral constraints that are already in place, particularly in child prostitution. An open market would also offer specialty markets and that could be even more degrading.I also think that regulation might help some of the ills associated with prostitution, so it may be a case of some being better than none. I'm not sure if I find it an easy trade. Ruth
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Ruth Inactive Member |
quote: I only object to surrogates as a general principle about reproduction, I don’t think we need any more babies than those that already occur naturally. I wouldn’t try to impose this opinion on others.
quote: I think you are right in your assumption about acceptability. It may have more to do with the life giving aspect of surrogates and blood donors, and the perceived necessity of sex.
quote: I simply don’t like your analogy; it seems crass to compare a human body part to an object, but it does make me rethink surrogates mothers.
quote: I’m torn between my views on personal rights and a more encompassing view of human rights. I find it interesting and am still considering it. And again have to run! : ) Ruth
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