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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Is there really such a thing as a beneficial mutation? | |||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: What is your opinion of the known mutation in gene CCR5 which confers eitehr partial or total immunity to the HIV virus?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
I'll add to crash's list.
Humans have crossover air and food pipes which enable us to have complex speech but also make the chance of choking much greater. We also have a sharp ridge of bone on the inside of our skulls for no ther reason than it fits the contour of the brain, and it didn't used to caus problems when we were on the savannah but now that we can travel much faster on wheels of all sorts (bikes, cars), it causes a lot of damage to brains.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: But nobody except you has said that most beneficial mutations are like this. For example, the CCR5 mutation. Or any of the many, many, many mutations that make someone a little more disease resistant, a bit more attractive to mates, able to have a little bit easier time in childbirth, produce a little more viable sperm, are just a little more able to digest the most abundant local food source, able to produce just a bit more milk tofeed their young, have just slightly better reflexes to avoid being killed by that predator, etc. I think it might be helpful for you to remember that for most of our evolutionary history, life was a daily struggle. It was very difficult to get enough food every day, there were no tetanus shots or antibiotics or doctors to stitch your wounds or set your broken bones or help you through a difficult pregnancy and childbirth or dentists to pull bad teeth. A very small advantage would easily mean the difference between life and death in many cases. Or at least the life or death or the very creation of your offspring. Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given. Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Maleria kills babies. Sickle Cell keeps malaria from killing the babies. But anyway, Faith, if we didn't have a large, thriving, "viable" transcontinetal population of people with SCD, we wouldn't be having this conversation about SCD, would we? You are also forgetting what I have told you before which is that one can be a carrier of the SCD mutation and be immune to malaria but be virtually asymptomatic.
quote: As I've said before, evolution does not predict "healthy" populations. It predicts change in response to environmental pressures. Sometimes that means extinction. Actually, most of the time. Let me ask you this... Which is a "healthier" population; One that is wiped out by maleria or one that numbers in the millions?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: If you already know what we've said, why won't you explain why you don't accept what we've said? Gene CCR5, Faith. You've simply pretended, over 400 posts now, that nobody has mentioned it. Also, which is more "viable" as a population; One that all of the individuals have been killed by malaria, or one in which a percentage of the population, which nubers in the millions and spreads across several continents, has SCD?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Welcome to the rigors of scientific inquiry. And nobody has used ridicule to win their point. You handed all of us our points on a silver platter because you haven't addressed most of them with anything other than personal incredulity, and the rest you haven't addressed at all. Gene CCR5, for example.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Why are you so focused on those? What is the difference, anyway, WRT survivability in a species? Remember, evolution doesn't care that individuals live long, healthy lives. That's you anthropomorphizing evolution. I addressed this already in the last thread, and in this one
here
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Which is a more viable population; One which is wiped out by malaria, or one that spans several continents and numbers in the millions? Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Here's what science says about the CCR5 mutation. What do you have to say about what science says about it?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Science is phenomena, is facts. The Theory of a Heiocentric Solar Syatem is theory, is interpretation. Science is phenomena, is facts. The Atomic Theory of Matter is theory, is interpretation. Science is phenomena, is facts. The Germ Theory of Disease is theory, is interpretation.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Might I point out that it is also ot treating your opponent with respect to simply dismiss their arguments, which your opponent has usually spent time researching, finding links for, and constructing.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Can you please explain why it is unreasonable to consider it likely that ancient humans got impacted teeth when their jaws became smaller?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: 1) Mutations are the normal genetic process. 2) Gene CCR5
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
My apologies to Admin.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Because if we don't work from a definition of "beneficial" before we attempt to give you examples, you can dismiss all of them as not meeting your idea of what "beneficial" means.
quote: You can absolutely have a different point of view. But this is a science thread. All points of view need to be scientific here. All claims and rebuttals need to have evidence-based backing. All your terms need to be defined before you claim that they do not meet your definition.
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