Why evolution and Christianity cannot logically mesh

For placing Gods word above fallen mans? hmmmHey Robin - see what I mean about position along the continuum?

I think the wrath of God poured out on mankind because of his wickedness is fairly well established myself. We are supposing that evolution is the case so the Fall of nature takes on a different aspect than the view which holds no evolution."Even allowing for my view" can work both ways. It is highly questionable that animals suffer if one has first accepted (for that is the grounds on which we must investigate the thread title) that man is a species completely apart (God did something to an existing creature which made him man rather than creature). The question of whether animals suffer is impenetrable for want of being able to look at it from the animals perspective.I don't see any imperfection in God because of the fall of man. He allowed man a choice and allowed man to reap the consequences of that choice. He warned them there would be consequences too. God is vindicated no matter what the outcome for individuals. If in Hell his justice and wrath vent their fury against sin. If in heaven his justice and love pour out on those who have been washed clean of sin. God can't lose either way. The Fall impinges not on his perfection Overreaction on what basis? God made it that Adam would pass on that which made him man to his offspring. Like breeds like. We all got our mankindedness from him. That was the order set up. Now if Adam goes and makes a mutant of himself with his rebellion then all his offspring will be mutants. God is holy - he cannot let sin pass. It must be punished. Wrath is an aspect of who God is. Love and Justice are also aspects of God. He cannot not be God. So its not like he could chose not to be wrathful against sin. As it happens the effect of this wrath poured out is to result in man sinning more - which God in his love uses to bring back man to himself. He uses the very fact of his wrath as a means to save us while we still can be. Like if that isn't bending over backwards I do not know what is.Nor is it that those being punished have no option but to sin. They have - they have a conscience tugging at them not to sin. Yet they chose to. So people today are not being punished for Adams sin but their own sin. We all know we chose to do wrong when we didn't have to. Our sin which attracts Gods (seriously curtailed) wrath. The full blown wrath comes later on. The level of wrath which sin actually attracts. No holds barred wrath (*shivers at the thought*) The only person who can decide how bad sin is is God. We cannot. We can debate all we like but patently this is the way it is and it is fairly clear from the Bible that that is the view he takes. Any argument about it being too severe stumbles over that fact.I know the the good die young and that the wicked prosper but we must remember that this life of ours is but a blip. It is a temporary arena where eternal destination is figured out. If Adam hadn't fallen God would have had a means to deal with that. He did, and God has a means to deal with this.Accounts will be settled and in full measure later. There is greater and lesser in the kingdom of God. There will be some who come through as if through fire. There is good reason to suppose there will be greater and lesser in Hell too. To each according to what he has done. I wouldn't worry about injustice on this front.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being poured out (or revealed) against all the ungodlieness and wickedness of man who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.Now one could argue about a translation which says "is being" ie: is currently being. But you only have to read on in the passage to have that confirmed. The effect of Gods wrath being poured out is that God hands man over to his sin. When a man supresses the truth about God revealed to him (in nature and conscience) then God says "Ok - off you go" and withdraws his hold tending a man away from sin. Read on to what happens to a man to whom that happensVery much present tense, very much the effect of the wrath of GodFree will is an illusion GDR. Adam had free will from the moment he was given a choice. Once expressed he had no free will anymore. Sin entered him and he became a slave to sin. That is how Paul describes mankind at large. Slaves to sin. A slave doesn't have free will regarding whether to sin or not. He is like an addict. He will inject - unless God draws him away from it.Nor is it that the slavery motief is Pauls alone. Did not the son come to set us free and if he did we would be free indeed. Free from what? Slavery to sin of course.See it perhaps as two competing opposites: Sin compelling a man to sin, God, through conscience compelling a man away from it. Your conscience is very much a supernatural thing. It happens every day (if a person is still bless enought to have one operating on them)Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Topic is TOEvo+God. Assuming God mean we all are men. Fallen but made quite apart from the animals. Because we are all men what applies to one applies to all. If I suffer as a man other men suffer as men - because we are all men. We can all comment on suffering and compare notes. We see machines reacting to certain stimuli the way the machine aspect of us react to same stimuli. But there sits something else atop us as machines. That we are men. Because we cannot separate our that unique aspect from the machine aspect we cannot say that suffering is completely a function of machinery. We suffer precisely because we are we's. Without the we's attached what can we say about suffering. Nothing either way I suggest.I am making a logical point to counter the 'cannot logically mesh argument' Post-fall people might agree that 'suffering' for animals is warranted. But pre-fall (evo-territory)they would say God is cruel. My point is that we cannot say animals suffer at all. Thus God is not cruel.{AbE} may I say that infering them suffering because they express similar mechanical reaction to stimuli as our machines aspect whilst ignoring the central difference between us..er.... suffers from the same leap of logic that the evos makes elsewhere in their reckoning. And one you frequently pull them up on Edited by iano, : No reason given.Edited by iano, : No reason given.