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Member (Idle past 2544 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
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Author | Topic: God's purpose | |||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
To get back to the OP....If there is no physical role for God (i.e. if we had overwehelmingly verified theories for the creation of life and the existence of the universe - I'm not saying we have yet just what if..) then surely you agree that the draw of God to the masses would at least be reduced. No? No. As a Christian I look forward to learning how GOD created life and this wondrous universe. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
In that situation whereby there are verified scientific mechanisms in place to explain these phenomenon...would your faith not be at all shaken?????? Nope. Not even a little. All that would tell us is "HOW" GOD did it. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
On what, if anything, do you base this absolute conviction? I base the conviction on my belief that GOD exists. If we were to discover exactly how (or more realistically one possible way) life was created, and how our universe came into being, it is just adding details to the creation story. If I look at a Seurat picture,
I can learn lots about HOW he created it. I can dissect it, examine it, look at the origin of the pigments, examine each and every dot of paint, how points of paint were laid on top of other points of paint, partially hiding the one below. I can study our eyes, and our brains and learn all the processing we do. I can study the lighting and the surroundings and what I ate that day and who I was with and what I hear while looking at it and all the other factors we can imagine. Is that basket of data, that pile of information the painting? Is that basket of data, that pile of information what I experience? Is that basket of data, that pile of information what you experience? If GOD exists, the She exists regardless of any evidence It does not exist. If GOD does not exist, He does not exist regardless of any evidence She does exist. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
This sort of thing is all very well but something simlar if not identical could be said by anyone of faith regards their particular brand of belief. Of course.
Frankly none of this is any reason to have absolute conviction in your god above any other... LOL. Of course.
...and none of this is directly relevant to the topic under discussion. Oh, I agree. I think we are pretty much wasting our time trying to figure out what GODs purpose is. Perhaps someday we can ask. But the folk that say we are GODs purpose make God into a pretty small critter.
Belief in the face of all evidence could be called delusion by someone less polite than myself...... Oh, that is okay. Feel free to speak your mind. But so far I have seen no evidence that GOD does not exist. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I would still be interetsed in your thoughts on the hypothetical science and whether or not this would potentially make us "gods" in the eys of our "creations" Well, the idea the any sufficiently technolgically advanced society might appears as Gods to those less advanced. This has happened many times in the past.
Or if god is more than and even seperate to the role of creator. Well, I think GOD is much more than creator. I believe that GOD is a personal friend, a guide, a mentor, a a cmpanion. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
But I have seen no evidence to suggest that the Flying Spaghetti Monster does not exist......should I therefore believe in him/her/it? I don't know. Only you can answer that. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Given that there are many like you that believe with absolute certainty in various equally unprobable and unprovable gods many of which are mutually exclusive, the only rational resonse seems to be to accept none of these on faith and believe only that which there is sufficient evidence for. Why? First, where have I said I believe with absolute certainty? Second, there is much in this world I will never know. The exact nature of GOD happens to be one of those things. Since I do not know the exact nature of GOD, how can I know that the gods are mutually exclusive, and why would that matter? What people call GOD is a human construct. It is something we create as an individual and it is not GOD. What I or anyone else knows about GOD is but a charicature, a human conceptualization, as I often say, a Map. It may be more or less accurate, but regardless, it will never be the reality, the Territory. As I have said, I see no evidence that GOD does not exist. I believe that I see evidence that GOD does exist. The evidence that I see for GODs existence is varied. It is in the order and consistency of the most basic forces that control this universe. It is in the wonder of things like love, of taste, of beauty, of music, of thought. We can determine the mechanics of all of these, we can learn about taste buds, about the chemical makeup of a Bartlett pear and compare that to the chemical makeup of an Anjou or a Bosc or a Comice. But that is not the experience of eating one. It is not the afternoon on a checkered tablecloth spread out on the grass eating pears and cheese while watching the Hunt Cup with a most beautiful young lady with long black hair held in place by a pearlescent bow. We may well determine all of the hows of life. Someday we may be able to explain all that is there to be learned about the mechanics. Yet even then, there remains the wonder and awe, the love and experience that can never be reduced to mechanics. I do not suggest that you, or anyone else should believe in GOD. For me, the evidence of GODs existence is overwhelming and I see no evidence that GOD does not exist. Could I be wrong? Certainly. Is it possible that there is no god? Certainly. Will any of us ever know the answer while we live? Unlikely. If GOD exists, She exists regardless of any evidence or belief that She does not exist. If GOD does not exist, It does not exist regardless of any evidence or belief that It does exist. I happen to believe that GOD does exist. Others may not. Edited by jar, : change sub-title Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I can see no more reason for believing in God than in fairies, unicorns or Apollo. Okay. Once again, that is fine.
As for mutually exclusive...well only you can decide if God (capital G as you put it) is compatible with belief in the Roman gods, the greek gods, the norse gods, the Hindu gods, the jewish god, Allah, the pagan gods, the spaghetti flying monster etc etc. etc. Actually I use GOD to refer to GOD, God to refer to various possible reasonably accurate charicatures of GOD and god to refer to some of the less likely caricatures. But all of those, every human portrayal including the Christian God are but constructs, creations of humans. As I said, they are maps, not the reality, the Territory.
What does God necessarily have to do with that? Again, I can only tell you what I believe. I believe GOD is the creator, the sustainer, the sovereign, our guide and judge. GOD is a friend, a companion, my mentor and my guardian.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein. AdminPD Edited by AdminPD, : Warning Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
On what basis do you believe that? Personal experience.
It sounds rapantly delusional wishful thinking to me. Okay, no problem.
What have you seen that I have not? I don't know. I can't even guess what you have seen. But I can tell you that absolutely nothing I have seen or experienced could ever be confirmed scientifically.
That may sound blunt and rude but if I cannot ask that question here, where else can I ask it? Of course you can ask. You can ask most anything. Please remember though that even the God I believe in is but a caricature of GOD.
I would love to have a "friend, a companion, my mentor and my guardian" but have no reason whatsoever to believe in one. That is fine. Frankly, it doesn't much matter whether you believe in GOD, are aware of GOD or even absolutely KNOW there is no GOD. If there is GOD, She is aware of you, and with you and watching over you, guiding you and acting as your mentor.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein. AdminPD Edited by AdminPD, : Warning Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Did humanity imagine/create God... Absolutely.
... or is there in fact a God who imagined/created us long before we even were able to conceptualize Him? No one living will ever know.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein. AdminPD Edited by AdminPD, : Warning Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Let's talk for a moment about miracles. Some folk do not believe in them, others do. I happen to believe in miracles, and firmly believe I have experienced them.
The next step might be to try to confirm them. Or it might be to simply accept that they happened and move on. Now none of the miracles I have experienced have been big things, impossible things, things that could not be explained by natural causes. But after I consider those natural causes that I can imagine, none of them seem likely. The most likely of the natural causes I can think of is simple coincidence but if that is all it is, it has been my fortune to have coincidence strike several times at very appropriate moments. So personally, I accept them as miracles, thank GOD for them and just move on. There are things that happen to folk all the time. Particular good luck. A close call or near accident. The sudden insight. The unexpected call. Pennies from heaven. In my life there have been many such incidents, the little voice inside me that seems to give me advice (usually telling me to shut up or that I just screwed up though), the call from an old friend just when I happened to be thinking of her. Not one has been worthy of much effort to resolve. None would ever convince anyone else that there were miracles. Not one of the things really defied natural laws. They could all be the result of coincidence, misinterpretation, self confirmation, just dumb luck. Yup. They could have all been just that. Or maybe my friend, my guide, my mentor helping me out. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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