Are creationist crticisms of ToE based upon the assumption that creation happened?

For me, it would be the innumerable chance changes and immeasurable amount of time needed to transform a single celled organism, which in itself has been proven to be mind boggling in its complexity, into the human species which is an utterly stunning display of compounded complex systems.My mind, as much as I've tried, will not allow me to believe that the machines of life, which are extreme and highly precise, could somehow be altered by chance to the degree the TOE implies. Some time ago a close friend suggested I take a look into the blood clotting system to get a better understanding of how amazingly complex we are, so I did so. I'll never think the same after this study. In my opinion, chance is not a word that can be used with this system I'm afraid, and of course there are many more as equally, if not more, complex systems like it, in all the species.To say that all that we are today is a result of a vast series of unpredicted, unobservable, impersonal, purposeless, unaccountable, incalculable events, is totally unacceptable to me.Respectfully, Paul.

Not so. I'm more than willing to accept anything that is truth or proven fact.Peter asked the question and that was my answer. Again, the chance of chance having the ability to direct us progressively and successfuly from a single cell to where we are today is, based on study, and in my mind, impossible. This is a personal view.Your allegiance to this theory appears to be quite strong, yet this allegiance and the fierce loyalty that is evident from labs around the world does not change the fact that the TOE is "still" a theory. I will never see how labratory induced, intelligence driven, genetic meddling will ever prove progressive NATURAL evolution as a fact of occurance. Based on what I have read, there are no clear cut and specific examples of evolutionary speciation, only examples of human discovery, genetic manipulation, or natural genitic recombination.Percy are you positive that your bold claim is fully supported and proven by empirical data? Being a faithful and willing disciple to this theory as you are, you will likely say yes and thats fine, thats your stance, yet for me, I believe that the data does not truly and fully support the TOE, and also that natural evolution has NOT been observed, and this is what keeps keeps me to my stance.If you think for one second that my spiritual beliefs cause my inability to accept the TOE, your sorely mistaken.My mind simply realizes that "chance has no ability".Respectfully, Paul.

Peter I do see that the two are analogous, however the fact remains that these achievements are done in the lab with intelligent direction and purpose in mind. When something can force "best suited change" as you point out, that means there is purpose and intelligence at hand as far as I'm concerned, which, goes directly against what the TOE implies.Your reference to 3 billion years is also in fact a Huge stumbling block for me and the TOE. Peter I honestly believe that, the odds of a single celled organism to, in a directionless process, without purpose, without power, modify through untold trillions of slight changes, into the human species, in the span of 3-5 billion years; are about the same odds as you choosing the correct numbers to win every drawing, of every lottery, in every country of the world, for every day, of the rest of your life....... go with mutuals!! We have seen in every day life that the processes required to build new, complex, and unique systems are always developed with great difficulty and many failures along the way, and most definately ONLY through intelligence, purpose, and power are these processes accomplished. I see no reason how the TOE could be exempt from any part of this reality, especially the latter part and this is why the TOE is invalid. To rely on chance changes only as the explanation to life on earth is an insult to the realities of intelligence, purpose and power, all of which we all possess and make use of.To think that all creationists refuse to adhere to the TOE based on Spiritual beliefs alone is rediculous, especially in my case. As a researchaholic I make no conclusions with out looking at and trying to fully understand the facts as they are, period. I certainly have not been able to read everything or for that matter been able to fully understand everything in science, but I am trying, and have a good understanding in this area. Based on what I've read and been able to understand of science, I still see no possibilty of the TOE as a paradigm of why we are what we are, and in fact, the more I read of molecular biology the more I'm convinced of this....Perhaps I'm too much of a realist and should stop reading? LOL. J/K!BTW: Percy..You may say that science proves nothing...But I believe it is the only mechanism by which anything natural can be proven and it has proven much. Thank God. Respectfully, Paul.

I uderstand your point Bull and it's valid.I was not trying to indicate in my posts that Humans were the goal or ultimate end result of evolution, but simply using them as a reference to make my point. This is exactly why I cannot believe the TOE. If we can have so many failures with predetermined goals and desired outcomes, driven by intelligence, purpose and power.....how then could it even be remotely possible, that the evolutionary proccess being completely directionless with no intelligence, purpose or power, even achieve anything! let alone the mind boggling complexities that we see in life today?. This isn't really about time frames or "any" outcomes ...We have an outcome! and It's about the fact that, is there any possible process that has the "power" to take life to where it is today from where evolution says it was 3 billion years ago? I think not.Chance is intangible and powerless, therefore whats left to drive this progressive, complexity increasing change if the TOE is true? Again, we see massive failure "with" goals and intelligence, power and purpose in the real world, therefore don't even think about mutation, with none of the above, as a possibility! Mutations have gotten a bum rap as to why life is the way it is. What then ??Respectfully, Paul