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Author Topic:   The Creationist Method
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3454 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 13 of 93 (411715)
07-22-2007 1:29 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by anastasia
07-21-2007 11:22 PM


Re: Responses to suggestions so far
No, I think the average creationist believes that their handed down interpretation is truth. You asked for a method which includes ID and old earth, and the hypothesis idea is the only way to do that. Obviously, no one is going to call it an hypothesis, but if it is a claim open to further knowledge, it is effectively an hypothesis.
No, not really. Although you seem to be more open than your bretheren you still seem to be confused about terminology. A hypothesis is not just an "educated guess." Most people focus on the "guess" and not the "educated" part.
Any claim can be open to further knowledge, but unless it is based upon real world observations it is not a hypothesis, or at least not a falsifiable one.
I can claim all day long that the magical world of Harry Potter really exists and you cannot prove it wrong. Can you prove that the events of the 1990's were not caused by Voldemort's rise to power in the magical world?
I am asking you not to make this an attempt to parody or laugh at Christians, but to use a Christian's opinion and insight. It is very humorous to make these little flow charts, but it is not accurate.
You seem to be under the impression that none of the "other side" understands the "Christian opinion." The flow chart parodies the literal evangelical position. If you fall into that category, I can't say that I am sorry. If not, why are you defending it? You can defend your own position, but why extend the chalice to someone who doesn't express your own framework unless you are just defending the veneer of Christianity?
Christians do NOT all believe that the Bible is true on scientific matters. In fact, I have never heard a single sermon about science in my church.
But, many of them do believe it is true and do not question based upon sermons. They (the ministers) do not have to even mention science if they can pass a few "facts" off as truths. One does not have tomention something in order to present veiled arguments against it.
If you want to narrow the focus back to literal, not Biblical, creationists, then your chart may be funny. Any interpretation of the Bible which does not contradict it is 'Biblical', but not all Biblical interpretations are literal.
What is the difference between Biblical and literal creationists?
What makes your view better? Or more real?

"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by anastasia, posted 07-21-2007 11:22 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by anastasia, posted 07-22-2007 12:24 PM Jaderis has replied

  
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3454 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 22 of 93 (412135)
07-23-2007 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by anastasia
07-22-2007 12:24 PM


Re: Responses to suggestions so far
Why can't an interpretation of the Bible be falsifiable?
OK, I take it back. I suppose that if one left a supernatural entity out of the question, then a scientific hypothesis based on an interpretation of the Bible could be falsifiable. Although, of course, the "observations" would be replaced with interpretations of scripture. A little "unorthodox" but it could work.
That is why we debate about Noah's flood. It is a falsifiable concept (and has been falsified), at least, until someone comes along and says "Well Goddidit" to explain away any inconsistencies pointed out about their theory or ignore the evidence against such a thing ever having occured.
This doesn't mean that you can't believe in God or that God planned and executed the methods and laws we humans discover, just that the whole question of God and his supernatural doings are unfalsifiable and cannot be subjected to the scientific method.
No, I am not confused about terminology. Any conclusion from the Bible is already presuming facts where there are none But for a general parallel of 'technique', I am using the same lingo.
I conceded above that it is possible to test one's interpretation of the Bible against reality. The problem comes in when one tries to fit the evidence to their interpretation and ignore any of the evidence which contradicts it. That is the problem with "presuming facts where there are none." That is what the flow charts were parodying.
I am not really defending anything. It's just that most of the charts put up here were for literal, Biblical creationism, and Doddy wanted to include ID and old earth as well. IMO you can only reach those positions if you are willing to change your 'guess' about the 'facts' in the Bible.
Agreed and I see upon re-reading that you were not defending literal creationists at all.
When it comes to the Bible, there are any number of ways to read it, and all of them are 'Biblical' but not all of them are literal.
The Bible says God created in 6 days, but elsewhere it says a day is like a 1000 years. Within Genesis itself you can question whether the system of 'days' could exist before the creation of the sun. So, some people take the 6 days literally, and some don't, but as long as you don't stray from what is written, and make up something that is completely contradictory like 'God didn't create at all'...then you are 'Biblical'.
I don't remember saying anything about having a better or more real view.
Thanks for your answer.
I apologize for seeming antagonistic. I don't know what got into me or why I even took such strong issue with your post.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by anastasia, posted 07-22-2007 12:24 PM anastasia has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by IamJoseph, posted 07-30-2007 3:07 AM Jaderis has not replied

  
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