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Author | Topic: Holistic Doctors, and medicine | |||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Dr. Barrett has a book. So? A book that lets him benefit financially from what is on his web-site. The whole web-site is a guide for his book. Like I said, that shouldn't invalidate anything, but the same logic has been used to invalidate naturopathy at times here.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Actually, all your links show is that Dr. Barrett has a vested interest in exposing fraud. Yes, fraud according to him, which is no different than the fraud, claimed by all these naturopathy web-sites, that are pill makers.
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Yes, fraud according to him, which is no different than the fraud, claimed by all these naturopathy web-sites, that are pill makers. Not really. One side actually has data to back up their assertions. The other side is trying to sell their nonsense. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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molbiogirl Member (Idle past 2672 days) Posts: 1909 From: MO Joined: |
Like I said, that shouldn't invalidate anything, but the same logic has been used to invalidate naturopathy at times here. No. Naturopathy falls flat on its face all on its own. The fact that naturopathic "schools" sell online degrees and that the 4 (four!) brick and mortar "schools" receive nearly all their funding from woomeister manufacturers is just icing on the cake.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3488 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:As molbiogirl quoted from the White Paper in Message 145. Once a treatment has been tested rigorously, it no longer matters whether it was considered alternative at the outset. If it is found to be reasonably safe and effective, it will be accepted. Everything has not been rigorously tested yet. When it is, we'll see what remains. "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3488 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:Well if an MD can be sucked in by pseudoscience, then what hope is there for poor little ole me?
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3488 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:The wheat is that which works after rigorous testing. I don't have the ability to perform the double blind triple flip testing necessary for accurate wheat verification, which shouldn't surprise you since you don't seem to think I have the sense God gave a goose. From Message 145 and the White Paper.
...Once a treatment has been tested rigorously, it no longer matters whether it was considered alternative at the outset. If it is found to be reasonably safe and effective, it will be accepted. As for my personal needs I just follow nator's advice.
nator writes: you do as much research as you can on your particular problem(s), and you see how they are to work with, and if what they do and advise you to do works. I'll go with what works. Edited by purpledawn, : Added Thoughts
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
No. Naturopathy falls flat on its face all on its own. Yes, someone earlier in the thread accused sinol of being big pharma.
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molbiogirl Member (Idle past 2672 days) Posts: 1909 From: MO Joined: |
It is Big Pharma. So what? Buz was going on and on about the evils of Big Pharma and nator and I simply pointed out that Sinol is Big Pharma.
And Sinol is not "naturopathy". Sinol has an active ingredient: capsaicin. It has been subjected to rigorous testing and has been proven effective for cluster headaches. If I've said it once, I've said it a dozen times, if an active ingredient is proven to be effective, it is not "alternative" medicine; it is MEDICINE.
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molbiogirl Member (Idle past 2672 days) Posts: 1909 From: MO Joined: |
The wheat is that which works after rigorous testing. I don't have the ability to perform the double blind triple flip testing necessary for accurate wheat verification, which shouldn't surprise you since you don't seem to think I have the sense God gave a goose. I have asked you three times which of these altie nostrums you find "effective" or "tried and true". And you have yet to answer.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3488 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:Apparently I can't count either. You have only asked once in Message 160 that I can see molbiogirl writes: What "alternative" medicine would you consider "wheat"? and I did answer in Message 172. My answer, since you didn't get the point, is that I have no answer for you.
The wheat is that which works after rigorous testing. I don't have the ability to perform the double blind triple flip testing necessary for accurate wheat verification, which shouldn't surprise you since you don't seem to think I have the sense God gave a goose. As for my personal needs I just follow nator's advice.
nator writes: you do as much research as you can on your particular problem(s), and you see how they are to work with, and if what they do and advise you to do works. I'll go with what works. What my ND has advised me to date concerning nutrition has worked. I can't speak to anything else. I don't advocate throwing the baby out with the bathwater if possible.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Why, then, are ND's allowed to prescribe any treatment or theraputic substance which hasn't been rigorously tested and shown to be safe and effective? You just said upthread that "both have their place" in healthcare, didn't you? Are you saying that untested treatments have their place alongside tested treatments in healthcare? And do you agree that Naturopathy's basis is in a "unifying life force" and the mystical idea of vitalism? Lastly, a definition of "balance" as Naturopathy uses it would be most welcome, if the definition I have gleaned is inaccurate. Edited by nator, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: MD's aren't trained in hypothesis testing, but we talk about it all the time here on EvC. And, after several years tooling around this website, have you really not learned how to detect pseudoscience, what the scientific method entails, and how to be a critical thinker? I believe you have been exposed to all you need to have a fully-functioning bullshit detector. However, I think you choose to not use it when it comes to Naturopathy.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
If I've said it once, I've said it a dozen times, if an active ingredient is proven to be effective, it is not "alternative" medicine; it is MEDICINE. But it is natural. Isn't there a difference between that and a synthesized pill? Is tea medicine? You don't drink chamomile tea when you have an upset stomach? Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
If I've said it once, I've said it a dozen times, if an active ingredient is proven to be effective, it is not "alternative" medicine; it is MEDICINE. quote: Chemically, the active ingredient is identical, so in that repect, no there is no difference. However, in many cases, the synthetic version of the natural medicinal herb or substance is sfer and more effective, since in its natural form, many herbs have varying amounts of the active ingredient and also containother substances that are poisonous or irritating. The synthetic version of acetylsalicylic acid (aspirin), for example is much safer than the natural substance it is a copy of, willow bark extract. The extract eased pain, it's true, but it also caused people's stomachs to bleed becasue of other substances in the extract.
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