|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: AL (Artificial Life) and the people who love it | |||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Really, this whole reply has pointed out the incredibly obvious, way to say nothing.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
For the same reason that evolution isn't linked to the origin of life. I am sorry, but that makes no sense to me. They have to be linked.
And yet, you suddenly started rejecting the findings of science just because you found god. I just said that I didn't. Science helps define my faith.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
That said, the Bible doesn't say life came into being ex nihilo. Instead, it came into being from the dust of the earth. Which came from where? I'll ask you now, does anything happen on its own?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Rrhain has ranted on and on about how evolution has nothing to do with the origins of life, and nothing to do with cosmology.
But in the very article from the OP, we find this quote.
"Creating protocells has the potential to shed new light on our place in the universe," Bedau said. "This will remove one of the few fundamental mysteries about creation in the universe and our role." Why would he be concerned about a place in the universe, or getting answer about cosmology from biology? Not only that:
"We aren't smart enough to design things, we just let evolution do the hard work and then we figure out what happened," Szostak said. So if they aren't designing it, then they aren't creating it. It's great that we know all this stuff, and it has practical uses in helping people. But it really doesn't answer the bigger questions. There is no "see I told you." So really this statement:"Life-from-scratch is going to pose an ... interesting ... dilemma for creos. " Is not a problem. There is no dilemma. The word scratch is over rated in that statement. They haven't even designed anything. That's all I wanted to say, until Rrhain turned it into his usual barrage of replies. I'm out.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Science, by its very nature, is a self-correcting system. It sometimes takes a while, but science is always willing to reject everything that it thinks it understands about everything when the evidence indicates that it is wrong. Yes, that is why I like science. But due to the way it is, I will not always choose to live by it. I like to blend both, and learn as I go.
When was the last time the Bible was re-written to accomodate new evidence that showed that it was wrong? The NIV, you've said it yourself. But if that's not what you meant, I wouldn't have a problem with that either. But being that it is so old, and there is no way to really prove that it is wrong, it might be better off left the way it is, and people need to take it for what it is worth, and only focus on what is relative today, like loving others.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Have you had a change of heart, riVeRraT? I've been away for a while so I don't know if you've had an epiphany and thus have renounced your previous claims. Yes I have. Other religions are fine with me, but not for me. I have been led to this one (whatever that is).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Why? Are you saying god cannot create life that evolves? Why would you think that, when I asked you earlier, if you thought that God could have create life that evolves?
...until the conclusions of science conflict with it. Then you'll reject science for your faith. You do not know what my faith is, so stop pretending. I will share that, at one point about 4 years ago, I felt the presence of God for the first time. I was by myself. I felt as though He told me that He created all "this" (the world) for us, and that He created us also. He did not tell me how He did it, and I guess that is not important for my faith. If God comes tomorrow, and tells me, we did not evolve, then I would have a major problem. God does specific things in my life, that help me grow, and it also helps other people as well, and none of it interferes with science, or vise versa. As matter of fact, I am a strong component in telling people in my church, not to use science to explain God, and I am not liked for it.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
According to his way of thinking, every time we procreate, we create life. God has nothing to do with it, because biology and cosmology are not the same.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
You need a kind of Turing test to answer the question, "Is it life?" If you can't tell life created by God from life created by man, you can't claim that life created by man isn't life. That's a good argument. No, this is not a good argument. Ringo acts as if we applied some kind of magic to make life happen. Life is in the starting elements, if we can just take those elements through them in a dish, and call it creating life. Then the logical people will say I am moving goalposts, but science really doesn't have any goalposts, why should I? I've never sat here and said that the way Genesis says we were created was the way it went down, so I really don't have any goalposts, as far as that goes. Besides, nothing is ever proven, and until we have a time machine, or meet God, we will never know exactly how it went down. We could have come from aliens for all we know.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I'm going to have to agree with Ringo here. Life ("artificial") is life ("natural"). Chemically there is no difference. If you back up a few steps and take a look at the bigger picture, there really is no difference. What's the difference between RNA/DNA assembling life, and us? It's all natural, since that's how it started.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
You mean you will abandon a self-correcting system for a self-deluding system? Simply because you don't like the corrections made? Since nothing is ever proven, how do I know those corrections, are correct?
And what, pray tell, were the errors corrected in the NIV? You've pointed them out yourself, need I go back in time and post it?
F'rinstance: The Exodus never happened. The historical record is quite clear about this. When will we see a Bible that lays that book aside? I have no way of debating if that is true or not. You are only basing that on current knowledge. Are you saying it is proven that it never happened?
So you're saying that the Bible is on the same level as the Iliad and the Odyssey? If you only focus on what is wrong with it, you'll never understand what is right about it.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Evolution starts with something that is already alive and ends with something that is also alive. Origins starts with something that isn't alive and ends with something that is. Yes it is all made up of the same stuff, but it isn't linked.....ok
All I need to know is what you say here. And what you have said here is that you will reject the conclusions of science for your faith. You said it just now in the previous post: You don't "live your life" by science. No, what I said was science helps define my faith, because science studies truth, and my faith deals with truth.
I simply wish to ask why you reject directly observable events that have developed into a unified theory I think I have been saying this for quite some time, and that is, I neither reject it, or accept it.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Especially since, as the Bible directly states, god "created" life from the dust and water of the earth. So if riVeRraT won't be satisfied until one can bring forth life ex nihilo, then not even god "created life." Instead, he converted dust and water into a "biological machine." I think you are confusing a lot of ideas all in one thought there. The bible says what it ways about it, and it has no bearing on my faith. We all came from something, and how that happened is not all that important to me. The bible says God spoke the universe into existence, just what that means is even irrelevant. I do feel God has told me that He has created everything, but not exactly how. If we can take what already is, and make life from it, it doesn't pose a problem as far as me being a creationist. Creationist meaning, I believe we were created, but do not accept the creationist ideas, or theories. I don't know how you can attempt to define the word life in the article provided in the OP, because it hasn't even happened yet. We are all debating, what hasn't even taken place. They only think it will happen. So when it happens, and we can compare real life, to artificial life, then we can define it. It id goes as smooth as cloning a sheep, there will be some discrepancies.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
In general, I’m not so sure I agree with this. I mean, what if just we cannot tell the difference, like, we are unable to detect the difference that does exist? Presumably, there could exist two different “things” that we are unable to see the difference. Just because we cannot tell the difference does not mean that “they necessarily must be the same thing”. I agree with you. rRhain acts if as though we can see everything down to the smallest level of existence, and be able to determine if they are indeed the same. Let's clone rRhain, and then ask him if his clone is EXACTLY the same thing.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
What are the ramifications of this, in your opinion? Based on my ignorance of just what they did, and how it works, combined with my ignorance on just how God did things. I would say nothing for me. It's all those ID'rs and Creationists that are going to have to do side steps, and start explaining the bible again. Not only that, all this hasn't really happened yet, so it all remains to be seen.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024