none of the above

But so does atheism. If the well-being of persons is your goal, as it is mine, then why bother with god and stuff?Not really a question directed at you, just an insight into my own beliefs.

As a man, neither am I. For one thing, it's stupid. Christianity recognizes (at least my church did) that women tend to have a unique level of nurturing, caring, and listening - but they won't let them be pastors or priests, positions for which nurturing, caring, and listening are paramount.Also the idea that, as a man, I'm supposed to be the head of the marriage does not sit well with me. I can't possibly be the best person to make decisions in every single instance, nor the best possible person to "represent" my family in every instance.

Also, the diplomat has the advantage of a considerable amount of training and experience, as well as a fully-trained staff supplying him/her with all the relevant information.Even then I'm sure there's times where the diplomat says "I don't know anything about that; talk to my staff." Similarly in my future marriage I want to be able to say "A new mortgage, eh? Talk to my wife."Perhaps it makes more sense to talk about what I don't want - my church teaches that it is the man's purpose to lead and represent the interests of his family, and to have the final say on all decisions. The wife's purpose is to counsel, but ultimately submit to whatever decision the man makes, even if she feels it countervenes the family's interest.I don't see why that's at all an admirable marriage. I'm just a man; as fallible as the next person. Why should I have final say? Why should anyone?Don't get me wrong; I think leadership has its place, and I'm more than comfortable taking on that role when its appropriate that I do so. But I don't think a marriage is the place for leadership.

Whatever works for you, dude. I can't take credit - it's your choice. You may not thank me when something bad happens to you, and you find little consolation in a pitiless universe...But if you find agnosticism makes more sense, then by all means, go for it. I personally still don't see the difference between agnosticism and scientific atheism.

Sure. I was trying to coin a phrase to suggest a thought I had, comparing agnosticism and atheism.From a lay standpoint, the common explanation is that atheists are sure there's no god, but agnostics aren't that sure. The point I had was that, technically, if one is of scientific mind, one can't be totally sure there is no god - tentativity must be maintained.So, from that perspective you can't be both scientifically tentative and truly atheist; that would require being more sure about something than tentativity would allow. But I don't feel agnostic, I feel atheist - I'm as sure as I can be there's no god.So, that's what I meant by "scientific atheist" - that I'm as sure there is no god as scientific tentativity will allow. If that makes me agnostic instead then I don't really think there's a difference.It's probably a misleading phrase. Hopefully my explanation makes some sense. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it, as well as the thoughts of other atheists or agnostics. I'm actually pretty new to atheism - at least, in terms of being "out of the closet" with it - so I haven't ironed out all the nomenclature yet. Since the topic is "None of the above", perhaps we're in the right thread after all. My explanation has a kind of "none of the above" feel to it, don't you think? [This message has been edited by crashfrog, 06-18-2003]

Like I said, I'm new to atheism. Thanks for everybody's thoughts on the matter.The definition of atheism I related, the one that implied absolute certainty, is the definition I tend to get from the majority of my agnostic friends; if atheism doesn't imply absolute certainty then I don't see the difference between atheism and agnosticism, except perhaps an unwillingness for agnostics to totally turn their backs on god or something. (Still playing Pascal's Wager. )

Can I ask you: if you're unconvinced that god exists, why isn't that enough to convince you that god probably doesn't exist? Scientifically I find it pretty convincing, myself.