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Author Topic:   Moderation Procedures to level the playing field
iano
Member (Idle past 17 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 16 of 57 (426586)
10-07-2007 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by jar
10-07-2007 7:48 PM


Re: The avoidance tactic
Jar writes:

I assume you can show where Percy has ever controlled content or avoided challenge?

I sure can. Just tell me on front of which impartial judge I should present the case. On second thoughts...

Actually EvC is a great example of open discussion. TTBOMK No ONE has even been banned or even suspended at EvC based on their opinions

Tsk, tsk. You know that I could (by way of my being banned) prove this point erroneous.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by jar, posted 10-07-2007 7:48 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 10-07-2007 8:23 PM iano has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 17 of 57 (426587)
10-07-2007 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by iano
10-07-2007 8:20 PM


Re: The avoidance tactic
Tsk, tsk. You know that I could (by way of my being banned) prove this point erroneous.

You were never suspended based on your opinions. Even when it comes to your behavior, because you are a Biblical Christian you have been allowed to break rules that would get an Evolutionist suspended.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by iano, posted 10-07-2007 8:20 PM iano has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by iano, posted 10-07-2007 8:31 PM jar has responded
 Message 20 by iano, posted 10-07-2007 8:33 PM jar has not yet responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 17 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 18 of 57 (426589)
10-07-2007 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by jar
10-07-2007 8:23 PM


Re: The avoidance tactic
I was suspended once. And my opinion had very much to do with it.

If someone was giving me slack that is their responsibility. I never asked for it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 10-07-2007 8:23 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by jar, posted 10-07-2007 8:35 PM iano has responded

  
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 1044 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 19 of 57 (426590)
10-07-2007 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by iano
10-07-2007 7:44 PM


Rope
iano writes:

You mean like the controlled environment Percy set up? Where he can control the content and avoid challenge? EvC indeed.

You're right, iano. Percy did set up a controlled environment here at the Evolution verus Creation Forum, at least in the science threads: he required creationists to accept the evidentiary standards of science, to present solid, replicable evidence and sound logic in support of their views.

That, of course, has been a recipe for failure--creationist failure. The failure of creationists here at EvC mirrors their failure elsewhere: there is no evidence or logic to support the creationist position. Nonetheless, Percy did the creationist camp a favor by muting the worst of their excesses.

Religion neither originated nor prospered via solid evidence or sound reason. Creationists can wax away on feelings of wonder and/or inadequacy, shame and guilt, appeals to consequences, tradition, lyric paeans to the lonely soul, etc.--but they cannot contest effectively in the arena of science and reason.

There are places at EvC where creationists can engage in discussions without the strictures placed on the scientific fora. In that regard, EvC is indeed open, far more open than religious institutions with their intolerance of secular perspectives. Go hang out at a creationist web site and see what happens to evolution supporters.

For some years now at EvC, creationists have attempted and failed to contest with science while measuring up to science's sharp (but fair) standards. We will never see the arrival of creationism's stellar scientific knights because there are none. There are pretenders to the title, but they would never come here, where their arguments are permanently recorded and readily confronted by knowledgeable skeptics. They will continue to make live podium appearances where they can talk fast, make a quick buck, and not look back--for they seek merely to discredit science among the unwary, not to match wits with it on a level field.

So I say, let's drop the pretense. Let's stop pretending that Uncle Creat is even capable of making sense around the scientific dinner table. Let the creationists say whatever they like: let them damn us, lie to us, demean their own minds, make things up, fail to provide requested documentation...let creationists be creationists without limit.

We have tended to give more leeway to creationists than evolutionists here, and I say it's time to go whole hog: give them carte blanche to do their worst. Let's continue to hold their science-minded critics to the most exacting standards of reason, evidence, and civility.

More rope, sir?


Real things always push back.
-William James

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by iano, posted 10-07-2007 7:44 PM iano has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by iano, posted 10-07-2007 9:46 PM Omnivorous has not yet responded
 Message 26 by iano, posted 10-07-2007 10:08 PM Omnivorous has not yet responded

    
iano
Member (Idle past 17 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 20 of 57 (426591)
10-07-2007 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by jar
10-07-2007 8:23 PM


Re: The avoidance tactic
BTW: I take it that you are not posing an impartial judge. In which case we can forget all about THAT point?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 10-07-2007 8:23 PM jar has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 21 of 57 (426592)
10-07-2007 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by iano
10-07-2007 8:31 PM


Re: The avoidance tactic
I was suspended once. And my opinion had very much to do with it.

I hope you can support that.

Now to the question.

Do you think the tactic of isolation, ghetto mentality and avoidance that seems to be the trend among the Biblical Christian community can be effective? Is hiding away and avoiding having beliefs challenged an effect lifestyle?


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by iano, posted 10-07-2007 8:31 PM iano has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by iano, posted 10-07-2007 9:35 PM jar has responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 17 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 22 of 57 (426597)
10-07-2007 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by jar
10-07-2007 8:35 PM


Re: The avoidance tactic
iano writes:

I was suspended once. And my opinion had very much to do with it.

jar writes:

I hope you can support that.

I can't remember the exact words. But "You are a high ranking officer in the army of Satan" had something to do with my being banned then. If I recall correctly. I could be wrong though.

Now to the question.

Who cares...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by jar, posted 10-07-2007 8:35 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 10-07-2007 9:49 PM iano has responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 17 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 23 of 57 (426601)
10-07-2007 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Omnivorous
10-07-2007 8:32 PM


Re: Rope
Omni writes:

More rope

You are too honourable to have me issue it out for you. Some other time Omni...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Omnivorous, posted 10-07-2007 8:32 PM Omnivorous has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 24 of 57 (426602)
10-07-2007 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by iano
10-07-2007 9:35 PM


personal attacks on members
I can't remember the exact words. But "You are a high ranking officer in the army of Satan" had something to do with my being banned then. If I recall correctly. I could be wrong though.

Ah, perhaps yet another personal attack on a member, instead of addressing content.

I have been trying to convince the Administration here that those should not be considered suspendable infractions when committed by a Biblical Christian or Creationist.

That is pertinent to this thread.

Should Biblical Christians be held to as high a standard of behavior as everyone else? If so, do you think that Biblical Christians could behave in a manner that would allow them to continue posting here or would we just end up suspending all the potential supporters of Biblical Creationism simply because they cannot behave within the rules?

Edited by jar, : fix subtitle


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by iano, posted 10-07-2007 9:35 PM iano has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by iano, posted 10-07-2007 9:59 PM jar has not yet responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 17 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 25 of 57 (426603)
10-07-2007 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by jar
10-07-2007 9:49 PM


Re: The avoidance tactic
Whatever..
This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 10-07-2007 9:49 PM jar has not yet responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 17 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 26 of 57 (426605)
10-07-2007 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Omnivorous
10-07-2007 8:32 PM


Re: Rope
Omni writes:

The failure of creationists here at EvC mirrors their failure elsewhere: there is no evidence or logic to support the creationist position

Granted.

What about the fuckhead position though. Take me for instance. I'm a fuckhead. According to EvC-think we could bat the ball - back and forward - and do no better than arrive at a position of fuckheadedness based upon the lie of the land (around here). If the lie of the land says I'm a fuckhead then I am. If not then not.

But I say I am a fuckhead. What then. EvC against me it appears. As if I should trust.

You're a fuckhead too Omni. But don't take my word for it.

:)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Omnivorous, posted 10-07-2007 8:32 PM Omnivorous has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by AdminPD, posted 10-08-2007 2:11 AM iano has not yet responded

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2070 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 27 of 57 (426606)
10-07-2007 10:39 PM


Not only, but---
Creationists are not only defective in challenging scientific 'theories', but are among Biblical ignorami. They come bustling in, bristling with indignation or righteous anger, determined to slay the atheist/evolutionary/scientific beast and proceed to demonstrate the full extent of their Biblical knowledge. Which is abysmal. You would think a believer would be concerned with learning of Bible history, versions, various interpretations, even textual criticism, if only to make sure they were on the right track-delusion-wise. But, the more they quote Bible-related matters, the more they are exposed as vacuous. Repeatedly, we are told 'There is only one Bible' 'The Qumran Scrolls show the Bible has never changed' 'Archaeology proves the Bible' 'The Exodus and Flood really happened' 'The Gospels were written by the authors named in the Bible'. And much more in that vein.They are equipped via church tracts, or their cyber counterparts, creationist websites, which stroke the egos of followers, but rarely admit their errors. When you try to point out ways of getting to the truth, even sourcing Christian scholars or clergy, they retreat into denial, or show their failure to absorb Christian principles by lashing out with juvenile threats. Basic dogma isn`t that hard to learn, but surely, there comes a time when you have to advance. Not only as a Christian, but as a human being.
Replies to this message:
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AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 28 of 57 (426630)
10-08-2007 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by iano
10-07-2007 10:08 PM


Language
Please mind your language.

Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread.

Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour timeout.

Thank you Purple


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by iano, posted 10-07-2007 10:08 PM iano has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5622
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 29 of 57 (426807)
10-08-2007 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Nighttrain
10-07-2007 10:39 PM


Re: Not only, but---
I assume this thread is supposed to be productive and conducive to that end. But its beginning to look like just an op ed piece on how awful creationists are.

Anyone else notice the disparity?


"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by jar, posted 10-08-2007 8:43 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 31 by AdminNosy, posted 10-08-2007 8:49 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 30 of 57 (426810)
10-08-2007 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Hyroglyphx
10-08-2007 8:28 PM


Re: Not only, but---
I assume this thread is supposed to be productive and conducive to that end. But its beginning to look like just an op ed piece on how awful creationists are.

It is true that the Creationists do look pretty awful, but we still need to let them present the best support of their position they can muster even if they destroy their own credibility doing so.

Look at Message 14 where an allegation is made and never supported and Message 22 where the poster himself posts how he attacked the individual instead of the argument and Message 25 and Message 26.

What can be done to help the Creationists?


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-08-2007 8:28 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-08-2007 8:57 PM jar has responded

  
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