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Author Topic:   Evolutionary Simulators: How accurate are they?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 15 of 31 (431163)
10-29-2007 4:46 PM


Pharyngula posted a video today that seems to address the "front-loaded results" issue, with an example of evolving clocks:
The fact that someone can design an evolution-like simulation to produce a construct with desired behavior neither undermines the instructiveness of these simulations to biology nor does it prove that living things on Earth simply reflect the intelligent desire of some divine genetic programmer.
The prediction of evolution is that environment inflects changes on organisms; sets obstacles in front of species that they must either adapt to conquer or be extinguished. In that sense environment is what is determining the results of evolution.
In the case of nature, environment is determined by the laws of physics and chemistry, natural laws and processes that are constantly at work. In the case of genetic programming, the programmer is determining the environment; he's not determining the outcome except by our scientific realization that, given evolving organisms and an environment that selects for certain abilities, an arbitrary number of different mechanisms for those abilities will emerge.

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 Message 19 by cavediver, posted 10-29-2007 5:45 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 17 of 31 (431174)
10-29-2007 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Hyroglyphx
10-29-2007 5:25 PM


Re: A reply to Rrhain from another thread
What I am suggesting is that these programs are oversimplified because it does not have nearly the same amount of variables you would find in nature.
Random mutation and natural selection are both incredibly simple principles. How complicated do you think a simulation has to be in order to accurately model these two forces?
I don't know anything about the development of the Boeing 777, not that it would provide any basis for the current discussion even if I did since an aircraft is not a living being capable of procreation.
That was the point of the simulation, NJ - to have 777's that could reproduce and procreate under the influences of natural selection and random mutation.
How did you miss that?
What I do know is that these simulators are not sufficient in providing a basis for the evolution of organisms.
Observations of organisms evolving is what provides ample basis for conclusions on the evolution of organisms.
What these simulations do is illuminate the ability of the very simple forces of random mutation and natural selection to give rise to complicated structures and behaviors - structures and behaviors complicated enough to give the appearance of design, even - and since they're modeling fairly simple forces, why would they have to be all that complicated?
It would do more to advance the theory if they attempted a series of controlled experiments to mimic what it might look like in actuality.
Done. Directed evolution studies on actual organisms are legion.

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 Message 16 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-29-2007 5:25 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 22 of 31 (431223)
10-29-2007 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by cavediver
10-29-2007 5:45 PM


and helped along by some great music
Coldplay's "Clocks", for anybody who didn't get the really obvious pun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by cavediver, posted 10-29-2007 5:45 PM cavediver has not replied

  
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