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Author Topic:   Evolutionary Simulators: How accurate are they?
Taz
Member (Idle past 3322 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 21 of 31 (431206)
10-29-2007 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Hyroglyphx
10-29-2007 5:25 PM


Re: A reply to Rrhain from another thread
Let me clear something up.
I clearly stated in the other thrad that the reason I was pissing and moaning about the video was that the narrator kept referring to evolution as a totally and completely random process. Yes, there are random processes involved, but not all parts of evolution is random.
YOU then said that natural selection is a non-random process inside a sea of random processes, implying that it was justified for the narrator to refer to the whole thing as random and ignoring the non-random parts.
I pointed out that there are lots of processes that make pretty patterns even though the bulk of them are completely random. The example I provided (monte carlo) was just that. The bulk of a monte carlo program is nothing but calling up random numbers after random numbers and producing random results after random results. Some monte carlo programs I have produced literally tens of millions upon tens of millions of random numbers and random calculations. But part of the monte carlo method is the whole thing is controled by a single or a couple non-random parameters.
According to your logic, the monte carlo shouldn't work at all simply because the bulk of the program is just randomness. And yet I've been able to make out pretty patterns and wonderful graphs with this very simple random mutations and natural selection program.
Nem, there are a lot more to programming than just evolution simulators. And there are a lot more we can do with the concept of random mutation and natural selection than just applying it as a mechanism for biological evolution. You should really learn a thing or two about software programming and what mathematicians, physicists, and engineers do with it before you make blanket statements again. I'm getting a muscle ache on my face from all the flinches.
The main thing is it was YOU who brought up the evolution simulator, not I. Frankly, I have never bothered to look into any of the evolution simulators before. So, I'll let others who are more familiar with this territory to talk with you.

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-29-2007 5:25 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-31-2007 8:19 PM Taz has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3322 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 30 of 31 (431530)
10-31-2007 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Hyroglyphx
10-31-2007 8:19 PM


Re: A reply to Rrhain from another thread
Nem writes:
Taz, you used the Monte Carlo method as a way to typify your argument, did you not? And were we not talking about random processes within evolution?
No. We were talking about ANY process that involves lots and lots of random steps and one single non-random step. By saying that the whole thing is totally random even though parts of it is not, you've advocated a lie, which goes against one of your precious 10 commandments.
Clearly there was no other avenue or reason for you to bring up the MC method. So please tell me how I'm wrong.
We've been trying to tell you this for days now. Simple random mutation and natural selection works for other areas other than biological evolution as well. When I was pissing and moaning about the video, I was not specifically pissing and moaning about the narrator lying about biological evolution. I was pissing and moaning about the narrator lying about the process in general.
Again, the monte carlo method involves lots and lots of random steps with one or two non-random steps. I dare you to say straight to my face that it doesn't work when trying to solve physical and mathematical systems.
Software programs have nothing to offer biological systems Taz, which, if I haven't made it abundantly clear by now, is the angle that I've been coming from.
Again, I have not looked at any evolution simulation program before and am personally don't know enough about the mechanics of evolution to comment. It's called humility, something that seems to be alien to you.
Just remember that you brought up evolution simulator, not I.
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-31-2007 8:19 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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