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Author Topic:   Egg burier animals question
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 10 of 29 (438911)
12-06-2007 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by EighteenDelta
12-06-2007 2:00 PM


Re: Working it out.
crocodilians would be the obvious and most pertinent example. aside from birds, crocodiles are the only currently thriving branch of archosaurs. they also bury their eggs. they do this because they're not endotherms. egg mounds serve to incubate the eggs. temperature also control gender.
we know that some dinosaurs appear to have done something very similar, though they seem to have generally covered their eggs with their own warm-blooded bodies. basically, egg-burying birds are sort of a throw-back, retaining crocodilian habits.
Edited by arachnophilia, : word choice


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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 14 of 29 (438931)
12-06-2007 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by MartinV
12-06-2007 3:35 PM


Re: No, No Martin
here is the list of birds species which live in Sulawesi where
Macrocephalon maleo is endemic. It is pretty long list I would say. If somebody claims that Macrocephalon maleo bury their eggs because it gives them some survival advantage I would like to know how many Sulawesi species do the same.
you have completely misunderstood evolution. it is not survival of only the most fit, but survival of everything that except the least fit. a small survival advantage is, frankly, enough for the retention of a feature. no net effect is enough for the retention of a feature. and if there is some small advantage, that does not mean that EVERY similar animal would likewise spontaneously evolve a covergent feature or become extinct.
in any case, this is not what people are arguing. if you'll notice above, my argument is that it's a throwback to crocodilian practices.
Such behaviour is not very common amongst birds and further study is needed before making rash conclusions.
but such behaviour is the norm for other branches of archosauria.


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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 16 of 29 (438934)
12-06-2007 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by clpMINI
12-06-2007 4:08 PM


Re: Other Megapodes
that they are terrestrial (as opposed to arboreal) is probably important.
It even mentions that it is likely that temperature determines sex, making the message by Arach concerning a throwback to crocs even more meaningful.
yes. i wasn't sure if that was the case in mound-building birds, but vaguely recalled that it might have been, as in crocodiles.


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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 19 of 29 (438940)
12-06-2007 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by MartinV
12-06-2007 4:30 PM


Re: No, No Martin
That's more interesting as the reasoning of PaulK. Do you mean that genes for such behaviour were inherited from dinosurian ancestors and were somehow switched on?
crocodilians and basal archosaurs seem to have buried their eggs, and used tempurature to control gender. i'm not too clear on early dinosaurs, though the transition from cold-blooded to warm-blooded seems to have occured prior to dinosaurs' divergence, within crocodilians like postosuchus.
dinosaurs as a whole seem to have continued using egg-mounds, though in various different styles. i seem to recall that both ornithischians and saurischians tended their eggs in open nests, but that sauropods (unlike other saurischians) buried them due to the impracticality of sitting on them.
in other words, in this particular evolutionary tree, egg-burying came and went a few times (much like flight). tempurature's relation to gender might be common to the whole lineage, and egg burying may simply be a common solution for controlling temperature.
Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.


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