nested heirarchies as evidence against darwinian evolution

Before this thread gets too much underway I'd like to request that members keep their focus on the topic and not on extraneous side issues.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Molbiogirl,The information you provided is very much appreciated and helpful, but please let moderators issue the warnings. We want to give people the best chance possible within the Forum Guidelines. Thanks!

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

No, no, no, you did fine, mostly, right up until you said, "You are treading on thin ice here." How thin the ice is that he's wandered onto is for moderators to decide. He's only been back a day or so, so it would take quite a stunt to get him onto thin ice already.If those who haven't interacted with Randman before are detecting a certain amount of wariness on the part of this moderator, I won't try to hide the fact that he's been an enormous moderation problem in the past. But I'd like to give his return here the best chance for success, and I think that if other members would contribute their best efforts at keeping his threads productive and on-topic that it might prove very helpful.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

It appears to me that you're working very hard at not understanding the answers.There won't be a lot of back and forth member/moderator posting. I haven't seen threads crumble into bits so fast since you were last here. Either threads you participate in begin to resemble constructive dialogue, or you'll be gone. I don't know how you're going to do this, but it's your problem, not mine.To everyone else:I again urge you, if you would like Randman to remain here, help the threads he participates in maintain a constructive dialogue.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

It's responses like this: That Randman feels justify his excursions outside the Forum Guidelines.In his last extended period here, one criticism Randman often made was that board moderation is far easier on evolutionists than creationists. Board moderation's view was that Randman was failing to acknowledge or accept any role his own behavior might have played in the chaos with which his participation frequently seemed associated, but we won't be having that debate again. The recent changes mean I feel no need to convince Randman that he is at fault before taking action, but on the other hand simple fairness demands that I attempt to create an environment as favorable to his success as possible.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Rather than just declaring the information wrong, it might be more constructive to get into a discussion of the evidence backing the viewpoint. Your post, with its demands for apologies and bald declarations that it is everyone else in error with no discussion, is an example of why your participation here is often problematic. We're not here to have discussions of the form, "You're wrong," "No, you're wrong." If you don't learn to maintain civil dialogue with people you disagree with then you won't be permitted to remain here on any consistent basis.To everyone else:I know I keep issuing these pleas, but if participants in the Randman threads would like to keep Randman around as a debate partner then it is imperative that you interact with him in ways designed to avoid pushing him into behaviors where I would be forced to suspend him.In particular, Randman has a gift for pushing people over the edge into Forum Guidelines violations, such as this post I'm responding to that is pretty frustrating. I can't count the number of times I've suspended people who have gotten all riled up while debating Randman. Don't become a victim.It is constantly requested that I not suspend people like Randman, they are favorites to debate with because they tend to really get the blood boiling, but I've established a high standard for discussion here. If I have to adjust those standards for Randman because people want him here, then I have to compensate by holding those who want him here to a higher standard so we can still maintain excellence. Is this making sense to people? That's rhetorical, please don't answer.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Randman,Moderators are no longer having dialogues with members. Please do not respond.I'm putting the onus on you to figure out how to have rational, civil discussions with people you disagree with. If you cannot do this then I will solve the problem by suspending you for longer and longer periods. This is your problem, not mine. I've also put the other people in this thread on notice that they, too, are expected to follow the Forum Guidelines.I've indefinitely suspended a lot of evolutionists over the past couple weeks and just one creationist, so I promise you that any nonsense about my bias will draw an instant response. I have one goal, I have been very consistent about that goal over many years, and that is for this site to host constructive and meaningful discussion on issues related to the creation/evolution debate. If too many threads in which you participate just crumble into fractious discord then you'll be gone.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

This took me to the edge of suspending you. Last warning. First suspension will be for 24 hours.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

I'm closing this thread for 24 hours. If the tone of the debate doesn't improve when it reopens I'll start suspending individuals for 24 hours.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Please keep discussion focused on the topic. Seek the best in those you disagree with and you will find it.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Please let moderators do their job. If you have a problem with a post then please post to the Windsor castle thread.I'll deal with this particular complaint here, though. In the opinion of this moderator, RAZD has said nothing ignorant, inflammatory or derogatory. That ends this matter. Please do not reply to this post in this thread.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

The recent discussion is off-topic. Discussion could pick up in other threads, such as Human Evolution (re: If evolved from apes, why still apes?), or people could propose new threads over at [forum=-25].

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director