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Author Topic:   Is this true. Was Jesus lower than angels?
I-am-created
Junior Member (Idle past 5912 days)
Posts: 12
From: Pittsburgh Pennsylvania
Joined: 02-10-2008


Message 13 of 64 (456422)
02-17-2008 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
02-08-2008 4:10 PM


The entire basis of salvation through Christ depends on the fact that he was both fully God and fully man. He was still God, though he was made 'a little lower than the angels that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone' (Hebrews 2:9) If he was still only God and greater than the angels, he would not have been able to die for our sins. If he was "a great prophet and Rabbi" and not also fully God, he would not have been able to atone for the sins of the whole world.
The only way for sins to be atoned for through the Law that God had given to the Israelites was through sacrifice. One animal sacrifice did not even cover all of the sins of a single nation, let alone the entire world. The sacrifice that would be needed to cover the sins of the world (past, present, and future sins) would have to be something that was infinitely valuable. The ONLY thing that is infinitely valuable is God, so he sent his Son into the world to be the sacrificial lamb for the sins of all. Since God is an infinite being that is not bound into existance as we are, he would have to become 'a little lower than the angels' in order to enter time and space.
Interestingly enough, even being 'lower than the angels' everything was still subject to him.
"...and crowned him with glory and honor. You have given him rule over the works of your hands, putting all things under his feet..." (Psalm 8 6-7)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 02-08-2008 4:10 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Greatest I am, posted 02-18-2008 8:20 AM I-am-created has not replied

  
I-am-created
Junior Member (Idle past 5912 days)
Posts: 12
From: Pittsburgh Pennsylvania
Joined: 02-10-2008


Message 34 of 64 (456704)
02-19-2008 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Brian
02-19-2008 1:43 PM


The Flood?
I always find it interesting how so many non-believers use The Flood in just about any argument about God. I've seen it quite a number of times on this message board.
quote:
when he slaughtered millions of innocent people during the Flood, then regretted it, He realised just how stupid He was over this sin nonsense
If you're going to be using The Flood in your arguments, you might want to get the story right.
Genesis 6:5 "When the Lord saw how great was man's wickedness on earth, and how no desire that his heart conceived was ever anything but evil..."
This sounds like not so innocent people to me, in fact it sounds as if they are...well...evil.
Secondly, I'm not sure where you come up with the idea that God regretted wiping out everyone in the Flood. But if you are referring to Genesis 8:21 "When the Lord smelled the sweet odor, he said to himself: 'Never again will I doom the earth because of man, since the desires of man's heart are evil from the start; nor will I ever again strike down all living beings, as I have done.'", that isn't saying that he regretted doing it at all. It merely was making a statement or 'covenant' that he will not destroy all life because of the wickedness of man.
Since God had made this covenant with Noah, and we are unable to save ourselves because the desires of our hearts are evil from the start, it was up to God to save us. That's what he did by sending his Son as a sacrifice for the sins of the world.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Brian, posted 02-19-2008 1:43 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
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I-am-created
Junior Member (Idle past 5912 days)
Posts: 12
From: Pittsburgh Pennsylvania
Joined: 02-10-2008


Message 36 of 64 (456708)
02-19-2008 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Chiroptera
02-19-2008 1:48 PM


Sin nonsense
quote:
He can quit worry about that sin nonsense and actually love us and accept us for who we are just like any decent parent loves and accepts her children even when they take a different path in life than she originally had hoped for.
Unfortunately, the definition of sin (even Webster's definition) counters your argument.
sin- a.)an offense against God
b.)the condition of being guilty of continued offense against God
Not a bad definition, but I prefer to think of the essence of sin is when we choose things, like things, love things, and do things that show that we do not value God above those things.
As the Fountain of All Holiness, nothing evil can be in the presence of God. Sin, in essence, is rebellion against God, the most heinous crime that you could commit. God is not just 'any decent parent', he is the Holy of Holies, the source of everything that is good. The only way that we can be in God's presence is if we are also holy. That is the work that he sent his Son to do. Though the perfect sacrifice of Christ, our sins on earth are forgiven and the righteousness that Christ achieved is credited to us, so that we can stand before God and be welcomed home. God provided the Way for us to be reconciled with him, but it is the continual stubborness of those who reject him that will prevent you from finding favor with God. God doesn't choose to send you to Hell, you send yourself to Hell by not choosing to accept the sacrifice of Christ.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Chiroptera, posted 02-19-2008 1:48 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Chiroptera, posted 02-19-2008 4:58 PM I-am-created has not replied

  
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