Cosmology 101

The strentgh of the fundamental forces in the universe(force of gravity, speed of light, strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force, proton mass, etc.) is so finely tuned(to support life?), that the only good explanation for the existence of these finely tuned conditions besides god, would be a multiverse and multiple big bangs giving rise to multiple universes.

That's not even funny. What would you think if you saw a perfectly shaped pentagon puddle? How many puddles will it take till you get the perfect pentagon shape? If it's so easy to win the lottery, why is none of you a lottery winner yet?Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.

Where did I say anything about evolving? Where did I say anything about a purpose? What are you talking about? Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.

If you are looking for a naturally occuring pentagon shaped puddle, how many "regular" puddles is it going to take till you can find 1 that's pentagon shaped? The point is(as was conveyed in my earlier posts) that the odds for all the fundametal forces to be just right to support life as we know it... are well... 10^55?. Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.

A couple of days ago I watched on National Geographic some scientist claim that there would be no life on Earth if the Moon wasn't there to keep the axis of the earth rock steady with its gravitational pull. Had it been not for the Moon, we'd have a widely varying temperatures due to the constant axis shift. The chance for life to occur naturally is so slim, that we either have:1. An extremely large number of other planets rotating around suns(AFAIK so far we have found just a few) and thus multiplying the chance that at least one planet could support life or...2. There are other universes stemming from Big BangsEdited by Agobot, : No reason given.

Hehe. I obviously meant to say to support life on Earth. I never said there's life on other planets(I couldn't know that). And I said "life as we know it"(hint here on Earth - hehe). So on to the question - how do you know there's life outside of earth? Care to present your evidence? Care to dress your space suit and take us to where alien life might be?

Having evolved from something as simple as a bacteria or a jellyfish, it'd be a real miracle if we, the descendants of the bacteria and the mutated sea creatures, find out all those answers. It wouldn't make sense if everything in the universe made sense to us. Considering where and what we come from, it wouldn't make sense at all. Einstein pondered on this, saying "The most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it's comprehensible"

Taz, even slight deviations in the laws would result in a universe devoid of stars and life. If, for instance, the force of gravity were just a few percent weaker it could not squeeze and heat the matter inside stars to the millions of degrees necessary to trigger sunlight-generating nuclear reactions. If gravity were only a few percent stronger, however, it would heat up stars, causing them to consume their fuel faster. They would not exist for the billions of years needed for evolution to produce intelligence. If we accept the idea that the universe was created by god, it would terminate our future research on the subject. The other possibility is that the Universe is the way it is because, if it wasn't, we would not be here to notice. According to this topsy-turvy reasoning, known as the "anthropic principle", it is hardly surprising that we find ourselves in a universe which is fine-tuned for the existence of galaxies, stars and life. We could hardly have evolved in a universe that was not!
The anthropic principle leads to the idea that our universe is one of countless others. In each universe of this "multiverse", forces like gravity have different strengths. An unavoidable consequence, however, is that most universes lack the special conditions needed for the birth of galaxies, stars, planets and so on. As a consequence, there'll probably be countless lifeless universes. And if you kind of accept the idea of natuaral selection of universes, there will always be at least one fit to support life. Or maybe, our universe could be the outcome of an experiment carried out by a superior intelligence in another universe(creating a singularity and fine tuning the cosmological constants so that life as we know it is possible). If you don't accept this, i am afraid, currently, your only other option is creationism.Currently, both science and religeon lack the ability to pinpoint what started all - if a Supreme Being made the first universe, who or what made the Supreme Being? And, if everything began with a mostly-dead ensemble of universe containing the intelligent mother universe, how did that come about?Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.

Evidence for the existence of god? Hehe, I am an atheist. I have no problem saying f**k god 365 times a year. Taz is just talking out of his ass.I said this fine tuning could come from:1. Multiple universes, one of which is ours
2. Billions of planets within our universes, one of which is our habitable planet Earth(although this doesn't really explain the fine tuning of the cosmological constants)
3. A singularity and a big bang created by other intelligent beings outside our universe and outside our 3 dimensional world
4. God - least probable scenario, but for the sake of statistics we shouldn't rule this one outEdited by Agobot, : No reason given.Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.

The only explanation I've given? What are you smoking man? You were the one claiming to have been mud wrestling with god.Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.

Speaking of a fine tuned for life universe, have a look at this:"If the universe came with any old rag-bag of laws, life would almost certainly be ruled out. Indeed, changing the existing laws by even a scintilla could have lethal consequences. For example, if protons were 0.1 per cent heavier than neutrons, rather than the other way about, all the protons coughed out of the big bang would soon have decayed into neutrons. Without protons and their crucial electric charge, atoms could not exist and chemistry would be impossible.Physicists and cosmologists know many such examples of uncanny bio-friendly "coincidences" and fortuitous fine-tuned properties in the laws of physics. Like Baby Bear's porridge in the story of Goldilocks, our universe seems "just right" for life. It looks, to use astronomer Fred Hoyle's dramatic description, as if "a super-intellect has been monkeying with physics"."Full story on:New Scientist | Science news and science articles from New ScientistIt's obvoius that for all this fine tuning to take place, we either must have:1. A draw of a million universes, each with its set of laws, most of which would not support life, and a draw that we have won(being here) or
2. Some super intelligence fine tuned all the physical laws and the properties of the universe so that life is possible.Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.

Could you reference a link that states that life is possible even if the laws of the universe were different?
Wouldn't this mean there is life on the Moon, on Mars, Venus and Pluto? Because we know with great certainity this is not the case. If life is so adaptible and undemanding, why don't we find evidence for it within our Solar system? Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.

True, however i want to see their point of view in full details and what evidence, if any, there is to support this claim that life is possible under different values for the fundamental forces.

Who said that? Are you implying that those words are mine? I am sure you are aware that would be an outright lie...