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Author | Topic: The Prophecy of the 70 weeks of Daniel | |||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Exactly. Nobody said it. Nobody at all. You just like to pretend I said it because you can't answer my point. I don't know what you hope to gain by repeating an obvious falsehood over and over again.
quote: The fact that you can't keep up with my arguments does not mean that I am changing my mind. In fact I have a very good case. Daniel 8 clearly places the End TImes in the Hellenistic period, as I have already explained.
quote: SInce I have said no such thing, it is obvious who is clutching at straws,
quote:In a period of 490 years. WHich is over.. quote:Exactly. The end did not occur on schedule. The prophecy failed. It really is that obvious and simple. To anybody who can read the Bible without their preconceptions getting in the way.
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starman Inactive Member |
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starman Inactive Member |
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starman Inactive Member |
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: No, that date is the date of the original text, not the manuscript. The manuscript is dated 4 BC - 68 AD as can clearly be seen in the text.
THE DANIEL B DEAD SEA SCROLL
(emphasis mine)
BIBLE: DANIEL 3:26 - 27 MS in Aramaic on vellum, Qumran, ca. 4 BC-68 AD, 4 fragments sticking together, each 1,8x1,9 cm, of which 3 are inscribed, part of 3+1+2 lines in a Herodian Hebrew book script. The uninscribed fragment, 0,7x2,4 cm, and further a linen cloth 2,2x4,2 cm adhering.
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starman Inactive Member |
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starman Inactive Member |
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starman Inactive Member |
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starman Inactive Member |
quote:Tell us how? quote: If they are not representative of the dates that they say they are, of course you are saying they are a fraud. Prove it!!
quote:What is you point? You suggest that it was a hoax? That the sacred scriptures, so meticulously preserved, of Israel, were a shabby croc?? Otherwise, why would it matter when the oldest hardcopy of the record from Daniel, that we knew of at the moment, matter?? Think about it.
quote:Where was that? I can dig up thousands of links in a New York minute, if what you say is true?! quote: Person??? You claim strange things. Got any proof for that fairy tale?? The name apparently must refer to a title. Not the name of a king. Get it??
quote: Speaking of learning, whatever you do to your hostages, aside, what have you to address the ancient record, and it's apparent date?? Not the latest copy of the record, mate, but the record itself?? Maybe you could get your students to read this thread, where teach struts his stuff??? I bet you lose a few!!! I double dare you!
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Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Hi Starman,
I'm suspending you 24 hours for posting the same message many times. I appreciate the effort other participants have been making in not responding in kind to Starman's more, uh, enthusiastic posts.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
There's all of this skepticism relative to the extant Biblical manuscripts. To my knowledge, nobody is questioning the accuracy of Homer's Iliad and Odyssey.
Homer lived somewhere around a millennium BC, yet the oldest extant manuscripts of that are around two millenniums after they were written, about 1000 AD. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 641 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Actually, no one really knows if 'homer' wrote the odyssey and the Iliad. They are attributed to him to be sure, and it is a certain romantic notion about a blind bard..
The earliest mention of the Iliad was from the 5th century bce. Internal evidence shows the original work was probably about 8th century bce. Every one will acknowledge that it is based on legend. Internal evidence for the Book of Daniel narrows it's writing from between 167 bce and 164 bce. As far as I see, no one is trying to say the works of Homer are prophecy, and it means your soul if you disbelieve in it.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
ramos writes: As far as I see, no one is trying to say the works of Homer are prophecy, and it means your soul if you disbelieve in it. Loose your soul for disbelieving Daniel? I don't see that as a criteria for salvation, though most saved people likely believe the account. Many do not study it or try to understand it but anyone who prayerfully and carefully delves into it becomes apprised on much of the whys and wherefores of where the world is headed. In the last chapter some added significant data is given relative to our times, though that is straying from the topic of this thread. The Bible begins with the origin of human history and ends with it's finality when new heavens, earth and Jerusalem/Holy City replace it. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
PaulK writes: The "truth", then, is what?? That the savior is some Persian king? Get serious. He could never begin to fulfill all that was said about the Saviour. Obviously. That all you got?? The truth, Paul is that the fierce king who utters the dark sentences in verses 23-26 is a deceitful impressive slippery fellow who destroys many, all the while talking peacefully. He makes war with the "holy ones," i.e. the true Christians in the end times. Note that in Daniel 7:25 the notable little horn of the beast "made war with the saints and prevailed against them." The notable little horn who persecutes the saints (holy ones) is one and the same mighty one who persecutes the "holy ones" in chapter 8. His kingdom is also the same beast kingdom of Revelation 13 in the NT which "makes war with the saints and overcomes them." The planet is witnessing this as we debate. War is being waged on the Christians in Africa, Muslim nations, Communist nations, etc. The globalist beast kingdom, i.e. world government is emerging via the UN which btw is anti-Christian and pro-Muslim. You and others here need to corroborate these scriptures or you'll never understand them or whataheck is going on in the world today. Note how many times the "end times" and similar wording appears in these visions. Note also that when he confronts the "Prince of princes" in verse 25 of 8 that he is "broken without hand." John the revelator says messiah Jesus will destroy his enemies with the breath of his mouth or something similar to that when he appears to Jerusalem to set up shop/kingdom. This corroborates with the "little stone" of the first image vision which destroys the world kingdoms and becomes the mountain replacing the destroyed kingdoms of this world. Starman is right. Your arguments are full of holes so as to attemp to secularize everything that Daniel prophesied and to render as contemporary history. You pick and choose so as to overlook anything and everything that doesn't fit your secularist mindset for the book of Daniel, Jehovah's prophet. Edited by Buzsaw, : Add embolding BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Firstly Buz, I'll thank you not to attribute starman's misrepresentations to me.
quote: It is only your assumption that the text refers to Christians, rather than to pious Jews. Given the evidence that Daniel's "end times" are around 160 BC I'd say that your assumption has problems.
quote: Chapter 8 explicitly places the End Times in the Hellenistic period.
quote: Obviously we aren't. Even your erroneous reading requires that you have a candidate for the king who is supposed to lead this war. And you don't.
quote: IN SOME of these nation Christians may be being persecuted. But that's it, really. And in each case it's local forces acting on their own agenda. There is nobody in overall charge.
quote: By which you men that if I don't twist the Bible to fit into your prejudices and hatreds I'll never share your warped vision of the world. That's hardly an argument calculated to change my mind.
quote: Believe me I do. It corroborates my view that they are speaking of the same time. A time long before Jesus was born.
quote: Yes, it's anther example of Daniel failing.
quote: Except that the stone is never identified as a single person. The stone simply seems to be the Kingdom of God. There simply is no corroboration there.
quote: You mean he is right to grossly misrepresent my arguments, because it is the only way you can deal with them ? He is right to misrepresent and reject the Bible, because the Bible is subject to the dogma that you share ? He is right to confuse matters by failing even to keep track of his own arguments, because you have no real case ? If you praise starman's dismal record you only confirm how hopelessly weak your position is.
quote: If my arguments were full of holes you could answer them. Obviously you can't. Starman can't even acknowledge my arguments let alone deal with them
quote: Of course when you accuse me of "picking and choosing",you are really complaining because I DIDN'T "pick and choose" - the way you do. You want me to ignore Isaiah 45:1 You especially want me to ignore Daniel 8:8-9 and Daniel 8:22-23 because they sink your interpretation of the prophecies of Daniel. Don't think I've forgotten how badly you want to avoid discussing those.
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