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Author
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Topic: objective/subjective morals/conscience?
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2326 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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Re: Moral vs Ceremonial law
God's children know the voice of Jesus as He declares in John 10:27, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me"
So, basically, you have no way to tell. Thanks for clearing that up. Though I find it highly dangerous you would act on any voice in your head.
I hunt for the truth
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 63 by John 10:10, posted 01-05-2009 5:01 PM | | John 10:10 has replied |
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2326 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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Re: Moral vs Ceremonial law
John 10:10 writes: No, it's the other way around. You have no way to tell.
Really? You know what I am able to tell or not? You don't even know me, so kindly take your assumptions elsewhere. Since it is you who has failed to supply any way of telling whether the voices he hears are actually the voice of god, I'd say you're the one with the problem, not me.
As for me, just as I learned to listen and respond to the love of my earthly parents as I grew up, I've learned to listen and respond to the love of my heavenly Father as revealed in the Lord Jesus Christ.
No you didn't. You assume you did, but since you can't point to a single way of telling, you actually can't.
Those that have entered into the new birth relationship with the Lord as He explains in John 3:3-7 can hear His voice and follow Him (John 10:27).
You just think you do, and since you can't supply a method of distinction, you are a very dangerous individual.
The danger is in not following Him.
The danger is in not being able to tell if it really is him who is talking to you.
I hunt for the truth
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 70 by John 10:10, posted 01-06-2009 10:02 AM | | John 10:10 has replied |
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2326 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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Re: Moral vs Ceremonial law
John 10:10 writes: Your contention is not with me, but with Jesus who declared His children can know His voice and follow Him (John 10:27).
No, my contention is with you, and with your inability to provide a way with which to tell if the voice you are hearing actually is the voice of god. You have provided nothing, not one single bit of the mechanism you use to determine whether or not the voice you hear is the voice of god, no matter how many times you claim you did. What if you heard two voices, one would command you to feed the needy all Sunday long, and the other would command you to go help the sick all Sunday long. Which would you follow, and why? And don't come up with that same drivel you fed Mantis about hypothetical situations. They are there to illustrate a point. Now, for you to illustrate your point, all you'd have to do is say: "I'd do this, and these are my reasons". That would make it clear. Failing to answer the question will make only one thing clear, namely, that you have no way to tell if god is speaking to you. And that, quite frankly, will make you very dangerous.
All you are proving is that you are not one of His children.
I thought all humans were god's "children"?
I hunt for the truth
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 74 by John 10:10, posted 01-06-2009 3:10 PM | | John 10:10 has replied |
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2326 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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Re: Moral vs Ceremonial law
John 10:10 writes: All humans have the potential to be God's children. To be a child of God, one must be "born again" as Jesus explained in John 3:3-7, 3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." 4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?" 5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 "Do not be amazed that I said to you, `You must be born again.' Those humans who are "born again" become children of God able to hear the voice of Jesus and follow Him. The Lord may tell His children to feed the needy one day, and help the sick another day. But I've learned that when I obey His first instructions, then He gives me more instructions, not confuse me with new instructions when I haven't obeyed His first insructions. Trust and obey, there's no other way, to be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey. John 6:28 Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" 29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." What is dangerous is to "not trust" in Him whom God as sent.
Ok, thanks for clearing that up, would you now mind to actually answer my question to you, the one you skipped with this post? Here it is again to remind you:
Huntard writes: What if you heard two voices, one would command you to feed the needy all Sunday long, and the other would command you to go help the sick all Sunday long. Which would you follow, and why? And don't come up with that same drivel you fed Mantis about hypothetical situations. They are there to illustrate a point. Now, for you to illustrate your point, all you'd have to do is say: "I'd do this, and these are my reasons". That would make it clear. Failing to answer the question will make only one thing clear, namely, that you have no way to tell if god is speaking to you. And that, quite frankly, will make you very dangerous.
Thanks in advance.
I hunt for the truth
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 76 by John 10:10, posted 01-06-2009 5:04 PM | | John 10:10 has replied |
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2326 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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Re: Moral vs Ceremonial law
John 10:10 writes: If you could understand the English language and the spiritual language that comes from talking with Jesus, you would know that I answered your question.
I can understand English perfectly well thank you very much. But you didn't answer my question. An answer to my question would take the form of the following sentence: "I chose to do (this or that action) because (the reasons why you chose it)" Since nothing even remotely resembling that is to be found in your replies, you haven't answered my question. Thanks to DA for pointing this out also. Here's the question again, notice the implications of not answering the question:
Huntard writes: What if you heard two voices, one would command you to feed the needy all Sunday long, and the other would command you to go help the sick all Sunday long. Which would you follow, and why? And don't come up with that same drivel you fed Mantis about hypothetical situations. They are there to illustrate a point. Now, for you to illustrate your point, all you'd have to do is say: "I'd do this, and these are my reasons". That would make it clear. Failing to answer the question will make only one thing clear, namely, that you have no way to tell if god is speaking to you. And that, quite frankly, will make you very dangerous.
Thanks in advance, again.
I hunt for the truth
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 78 by John 10:10, posted 01-06-2009 5:53 PM | | John 10:10 has replied |
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2326 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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Re: Moral vs Ceremonial law
John 10:10 writes: You, and others at this forum, may and probably do hear different voices telling you you do different things at the same time.
Actually, I hear NO voices in my head, unless it's me talking to myself.
Posing this delimma as proof that one cannot tell if God is speaking to you is pure foolishness.
I did not post this dilemma as for that, I posted it because I want to know how you determine if it is actually god speaking to you.
When one has not done the work that God commanded us to do in John 6:28-29, then one cannot even hear the voice of God.
But when one has, how does one determine if it is the voice of god?
Those who belong to the Lord Jesus Christ, hear His voice, and follow Him DO NOT hear different voices telling us to do different things at the same time.
Really? So the devil doesn't speak to people? But, as I'm sure many people have noticed, you still didn't answer the question, so I'll repeat it once more, in the hopes that you'll get that it's a hypothetical question, and no matter what answer you give, it can't be wrong if it is supported by sound reasoning.
Huntard writes: What if you heard two voices, one would command you to feed the needy all Sunday long, and the other would command you to go help the sick all Sunday long. Which would you follow, and why? And don't come up with that same drivel you fed Mantis about hypothetical situations. They are there to illustrate a point. Now, for you to illustrate your point, all you'd have to do is say: "I'd do this, and these are my reasons". That would make it clear. Failing to answer the question will make only one thing clear, namely, that you have no way to tell if god is speaking to you. And that, quite frankly, will make you very dangerous. Notice that so far, you haven't answered it, and, following logic, you therefore will listen to anything this voice commands you to do. Very dangerous if you ask me. I'll await youra answer, and thank you, once more, in advance.
I hunt for the truth
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 81 by John 10:10, posted 01-07-2009 7:33 AM | | John 10:10 has replied |
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2326 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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Re: Moral vs Ceremonial law
The voice of God speaking is in line with the character, Person and words of the Lord Jesus Christ as revealed in the Bible (John 1:14).
Ok.
Yes he does, trying to convince everyone he can that Jesus is not Lord, and that you should not believe in Him.
Ok.
You will just have to keep waiting.
Ok. Seeing as you apparently CAN'T answer my question, I'm labelling you a dangerous person who'd act on any voice in your head if that voice is asking him to do what he thinks Jesus would do. It doesn't matter if Jesus actually would do this, as long as you think he would, you'd do it.
If you could hear the voice of Jesus speaking to His children as He declares in John 10:27, you wouldn't be posing these foolish questions, trying to put Jesus' children into a moral delimma that Jesus does not create for His children.
I'm not hearing any voices, that's why I am asking you to provide a way to tell how to determine it is the voice of god you are hearing, in case I would be hearing voices all of a sudden and have to determine it for myself. Seeing you can't point to a way, I hope never to hear any voices, it would be very dangerous. Further I'm not trying to put you in a moral dilemma, I want to understand how you determine that it is actually god speaking to you. Really John, the fact you can't even answer a question pertaining a hypothetical situation is not doing you a favour in this discussion at all, you'll have everybody thinking you are a dangerous person who acts on any voice who orders him to stuff he thinks Jesus would do. I hope for the people around you that you'll never get it into your head it's ok to hurt them, because some sort of outside source (knock on the head, chemicals) have convinced you this is what Jesus would do.
I hunt for the truth
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 83 by John 10:10, posted 01-07-2009 11:57 AM | | John 10:10 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 86 by John 10:10, posted 01-08-2009 6:49 AM | | Huntard has not replied |
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2326 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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Re: Upholding your own...
John 10:10 writes: If you will read the Bible verses I quoted, you will see that I answered his question.
The problem, John, is that you are the only one who seems to think so. Usually, if everybody tells you you are wrong, you most probably are. I know you won't see it that way, but that's the way things work. Oh, and I read those verses, and I don't think they're an answer at all, they're unsupported non-sequiturs, that's what they are.
I hunt for the truth
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 92 by John 10:10, posted 01-09-2009 11:10 AM | | John 10:10 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 94 by John 10:10, posted 01-10-2009 6:45 PM | | Huntard has not replied |
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