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Junior Member (Idle past 5387 days) Posts: 13 From: Huntsville, AL Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Another "New" View of Creation | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Will Seamus Ennis Junior Member (Idle past 5387 days) Posts: 13 From: Huntsville, AL Joined: |
Please see Message 3. --Admin
One night, we had a visitor at the Affinity Circle at our center who read some poetry about the creation of good and evil, light and darkness. When the young poet was through, he asked for some feedback, and in one of those 'inspirational moments' I responded. "My favorite creation story only has three words: ...It's still happening." Even though I never saw the young man again, the words have had significant impact on me and my views. It's still happening. There is creation happening right this second. Even in the few seconds that you’ve been reading this, there have been thousands of new cells created in your body, all following a pattern written in DNA. Oxygen has been transformed into energy within you, creating electrical impulses that have allowed you to read and understand the words written here. New stars are coming together, electron energy patterns in atoms are shifting depending on their energetic environment. New bacterial species are evolving out of old patterns of life. Creation is happening within the minds and experiences of humans as well. New music is being written and recorded. New products and processes are being discovered. New art is being dreamed in oil, acrylic, stone and video. What does it mean that creation is still happening? It means that, as conscious beings, we are part of it, that the intelligence inherent within us is part of the creative process and that, humanity aside, there is a nature of creation that carries on, even when we turn our backs. There are two things that we cannot deny from the observable universe: 1) that there is some level of intelligence observable even in the smallest particles and 2) that there is an inherent creative impulse that increases as consciousness increases. I can observe an inherent intelligence within all things, enough intelligence and energy in order to BE that thing. There is exactly the necessary amount of intelligence within an aluminum atom for it to BE that atom and not a helium atom. That intelligence would be exactly the same in an aluminum atom on the other side of the galaxy as it is in the soda can I’m drinking from. It would react the same to temperature changes, to pressures and to combinations with oxygen as the atom in my soda can. And such a minute piece of atomic intelligence plays a part in the creation and recreation of the Universal experience.I see this as a Universally Distributed Intelligence expressing as this manifest reality. I personally believe and know this intelligence as God, who for me is not the Tinkerer out there someplace in the sky who went AWOL after 6 days of work. I see this Creative Process as more real, more observable and more important than any story written for an adolescent human understanding. For me the most powerful six words in the Bible, which explain more that all of Genesis, are these: Behold, I make all things new. This Creative Process is evolution in expression, the manifestation of continued response to new environments and new stimuli, in nature and in the human experience. The ultimate question therefore becomes, not what happened thousands or billions of years ago, but what is happening now? How are we, as conscious beings, creating our own world? What stimuli are we responding to? What are we creating, as part of the eternal process? Because, for me, creation is still happening, and we each are part of it Edited by Admin, : Refer people to message 3.
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Will Seamus Ennis Junior Member (Idle past 5387 days) Posts: 13 From: Huntsville, AL Joined: |
Another view of creation
One night, we had a visitor at the Affinity Circle at our center who read some poetry about the creation of good and evil, light and darkness. When the young poet was through, he asked for some feedback, and in one of those 'inspirational moments' I responded. "My favorite creation story only has three words:...It's still happening." Even though I never saw the young man again, the words have had significant impact on me and my views. It's still happening. Creation is a PROCESS, not a single act. This process, where intelligence creates more of itself, is a natural expression of itself. It is, in fact, an observable characteristic of intelligence, part of the very definition of intelligence. And we cannot separate intelligence from its creative process. And the process continues. With every tick of an atomic clock, the Universe is a new expression. Even in the few seconds that you’ve been reading this, there have been thousands of new cells created in your body. This is intelligence —written as DNA codewithin each of us expressing naturally. Oxygen has been transformed into energy within you, creating electrical impulses that have allowed you to read and understand the words written here. New stars are coming together, electron energy patterns in atoms are shifting depending on their energetic environment. New bacterial species are evolving out of old patterns of life. Creation is happening within the minds and experiences of humans as well. New music is being written and recorded. New products and processes are being discovered. New art is being dreamed in oil, acrylic, stone and video. What does it mean that creation is still happening? It means that, as conscious beings, we are part of it. The intelligence inherent within us is part of the creative process. There are two things that we cannot deny from the observable universe:1) that there is some level of intelligence observable even in the smallest particles and 2) that there is an inherent creative impulse that increases as consciousness increases. This Universally Distributed Intelligence expresses as this manifest reality. The pattern of Intelligence, consistently expressing itself, is what we see AND is the act of seeing it at the same time. This view is not meant to step into the fray between creationists and science, but is a bridge between the two. This is not the pseudoscience of Intelligent Design, or the religion of science, but is the logical, observable center point, where we can SEE Intelligence at work in this moment, everywhere we look. (I personally believe in God, but not as the Tinkerer out there someplace in the sky who went AWOL after 6 days of work. I personally believe in this observable Creative Process, as a Principle that works now, as it always has. This eternal Principle, eternally expressing, is Life, is Love, is Intelligence and Beauty, which I might append as God but it is so much more than any story written for an adolescent human understanding.) This Creative Process is evolution in expression, the manifestation of continued response to new environments and new stimuli, in nature and in the human experience. The ultimate question therefore becomes, not what happened thousands or billions of years ago, but what is happening now? Since I cannot separate myself from the intelligence within and all around me, what part am I playing in this continuous process, as a conscious being? As a center of some intelligence in the Universe that itself is Intelligent, what am I creating? The Creative Process continues.
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Will Seamus Ennis Junior Member (Idle past 5387 days) Posts: 13 From: Huntsville, AL Joined: |
ah, well, then let me reconsider my audience here. and address some of the points, one by one, without addressing the personal biases.
It looks to me that I need to define what I mean by "intelligence." For me, this is not limited to volition, but includes the observable, repeatable natural response of every thing in the Universe, down to atomic particles, yes, even in a grain of sand. The crystaline structure in a grain of sand, repeated billions of times on one beach alone, has enough intelligence to exist as that grain of sand, with the chemical bonds that formed eons ago, were chipped along weaker bonds and were washed up (or trucked to) the beach where they are at this moment. Each one of them responds to heat, vacuum, mechanical stress in the same way. Add some radiation and the atoms themselves change, in a predictable, measurable way, no matter whether that silica came from Mars or my back yard. Cells divide, not by volition, but by some inner, innate intelligence that responds to the environment. They change based on both the inner intelligence and the conditions surrounding them. Bacteria evolves and it also "learns" from other bacteria that have already undergone the transformation. Bodies heal themselves, based on inner patterns and the response to the conditions. Hence my statement that there is observable intelligence even in the smallest particles. And expression of intelligence is the Creative Process. This is happening now, as new stars form, as the pressure and heat and radiation create new chemical bonds. New expressions of life are happening as species evolve. The point in this is that the whole Universe is responding, now in this moment, based on inner repeatable patterns and the conditions it finds. This is intelligence.
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Will Seamus Ennis Junior Member (Idle past 5387 days) Posts: 13 From: Huntsville, AL Joined: |
I'm not sure why I should separate intelligence from "natural laws". For me, they are synonymous.
To RAZD and his/her intelligent and helpful point, I'm not just a pantheist, but a panENtheist, seeing that "God (aka intelligence) as all" and that God (aka intelligence) transcends all, both at the same time. This manifest Universe is a continuing expression of an immanent and transcendent Intelligence that exists at all levels. Not Intelligent Design that separates the Creator from the created, but here now, still creating, still using the intelligence that exists within natural law. At the same time, the intelligence that exists within us, as free agents, to create as we choose, is part of the continuing process. We are the ones creating conflict, not some Tinker God out there. We are the ones creating the changes in the environment, as a direct cause and effect relationship, not as "punishment" but as an expression of natural law. The amount of volitional intelligence that we exhibit is not limited to a programmed response, but is itself evolving as we learn more of this cause/effect relationship. that is the real point here. Y'all have a nice day, y'hear.
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Will Seamus Ennis Junior Member (Idle past 5387 days) Posts: 13 From: Huntsville, AL Joined: |
Thanks, Linda. I'm looking for both the science and the way to see it from a philosophical POV. Some folks will say this is a waste of time, but not me.
So let's see if we can put some ideas together --like atoms, cells, etc. In order to make up the molecules of a carpet fiber, certain atoms become linked either naturally or forced by a mfg process. Certain atoms don't. This natural affinity or repulsion is part of its signature, and is true of that type of atom no matter where in the Universe it's from. This pattern of combination is repeatable under the same conditions now or in a hundred million years. I see this as the basic intelligence visible within that atomic structure. The Creative Process then continues based on the pattern already established. New conditions will ...possibly... create new forms. Introducing a new pattern, (a new set of "ideas") gives a new response. Evolution is such a response, where the intelligence already existing within a bacteria, say, will create a new response based on the new conditions. This is what I am saying, that the intelligence is inherent within the atom, cell, life form, in order for it to continue existing in the new conditions. The potential for that "new being" existed within it all along. All it took was a simple shift in conditions, or a simple new "idea" propagated within the petri dish or the colony for the new thing to happen. Isn't this the basis for genetics research? isn't this...dare I say it... Science? What I see as a philosophy is that we, as humans, can get a new idea and it changes everything. So, again, at our supposedly high level of intelligence, we are capable of consciously (or unconsciously) working with the natural intelligence around us, and so, we're part of the continuous process of creation. Thanks, for prompting the response...
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Will Seamus Ennis Junior Member (Idle past 5387 days) Posts: 13 From: Huntsville, AL Joined: |
so perdition, when, in your POV, does intelligence begin?
Is it when volition takes place? at what point of volition? Does a creature have to have brain? of what size? how do you measure it? How do you define it? Is that your opinion or scientific fact? There have been experiments where a cell in an embryo was moved from one point in the embryo to another. Because this cell had the "programming" to become a brain cell or a heart cell, the cell moved back to its natural position in the embryo, where it could form the basis of similar cells. Is this intelligence? Is it volition? Did some outside agency move it back? Please note that this is least as important, as nebulous, and as open to personal opinion as the question of when life begins to the abortion/choice debate.
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Will Seamus Ennis Junior Member (Idle past 5387 days) Posts: 13 From: Huntsville, AL Joined: |
RIchard, for me, intelligence is defined as "a patterned response to stimuli or conditions." And I mean "patterned response" in the broadest possible terms. So it could and does happen at all levels of existence.
The more complex the "system," the more complex the response, but it's still a patterned response no matter how simple or complex. Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Subtitle - Original was part of a long string of "Re: re-done, let me know what you think." New one is "Once again, trying something in place of a worthless subtitle" Edited by Will Seamus Ennis, : No reason given.
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Will Seamus Ennis Junior Member (Idle past 5387 days) Posts: 13 From: Huntsville, AL Joined: |
Linda,
this is interesting stuff. I believe that the adaptation of cells and connections within the brain is evidence of the inherent intelligence within the cells themselves. There is some sort of trigger that opens cells to make new connections possible and to seek a function for the individual, so that she could survive. I see it as being inherent in the cells because all of this is occuring without the awareness or volition of the person.
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Will Seamus Ennis Junior Member (Idle past 5387 days) Posts: 13 From: Huntsville, AL Joined: |
Phage,
I believe that whales have enough intelligence within them, in their brains, and body functions, to BE successful whales. To ask them to have more intelligence, to change their functions or their responses to stimuli, they would no longer be whales, but something else. There's exactly enough intelligence within a helium atom to BE a helium atom and respond to stimuli or conditions like a helium atom. If it had a different set of responses, it would be something else. Same with trees, humans, stars or water freezing/thawing. And yes, I do believe that there is a direct connection between intelligence, as I define it, and existence. Linda As far as consciousness, that's a whole other nebulous subject that's difficult to define. For me, it's self-awareness on the individual level, Spiritual Awareness on the Infinite level, but here, I wanna concentrate on the observable for our materialist scientist friends.
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Will Seamus Ennis Junior Member (Idle past 5387 days) Posts: 13 From: Huntsville, AL Joined: |
So, tuffers, I have to ask and reframe the question I posed to perdition: what is the basic unit of intelligence? If intelligence can be defined as a patterned response to conditions or stimuli...from within the nature of that thing, then at what level does it first become observable?
I get that there is a difference between the response of an atom or cell and the response of a self-aware mind, but to me they are connected in the basic sense of "a patterned response to stimuli." One response is simply more complex and is a self-supporting system of these basic units, built upon one another to BE the thing that it is.
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Will Seamus Ennis Junior Member (Idle past 5387 days) Posts: 13 From: Huntsville, AL Joined: |
Intelligence, Life, Love, Consciousness, God, Orgasms, even the idea of pizza have different inner meanings to each of us. I don't see how we can come together about anything with such rigid of ideas of what constitutes the basic forces in the Universe.
So for me.... >Intelligence is a patterned response to stimuli, even by an atom.>The connections within a brain, even of a whale, are the evolution of the intelligence within the brain cells, making increased systematic advances in function. >Thinking is the action of a mind. >Consciousness IS intelligence brought to the level of self-awareness.
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Will Seamus Ennis Junior Member (Idle past 5387 days) Posts: 13 From: Huntsville, AL Joined: |
"The stream of knowledge is heading toward a nonmechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter . . . we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter." Physicist Sir James Jeans
Ok Y'all, I'm tired of pussyfootin' around here and attempting to fit my observations of the Universe into somebody else's materialistic paradigm. If form is all some people can see, I can't help that. I see that there is a triune nature of the Universe, and the material is only one part of it. As it's explained, there are three parts to all that exists: idea, energy and form. Energy is ubiquitous and doesn't care what it forms. Idea is the differentiator, form is the result. If we can see beyond the physical form to the idea behind it, we can see that the Universe is nothing but the result of thought. Steps into quantum mechanics have seen that consciousness changes the actions of the form, without direct mechanical intervention. It actually can change the "natural" responses of charged particles. So with that, I have been rethinking the "intelligence" statements that I've been making. (I, at least, am open to evolution, unlike some other rigid thinkers). Maybe the definition of intelligence is too narrow to see it in an atom or cell. So I've been looking for another term. The basic unit of intelligence is an idea, a thought, expressing as form. It's not only that, but is the basic unit of existence. The receptivity of particles to observation, to being influenced by a thought, is evidence that the particle itself is made of the same stuff. In order for a particle to resonate with thought, it must be, at least in part, made of thought. The materialists can't see it, but even they have had experiences of thought experiments, if they would admit it. Like thinking of a song and hearing it immediately on the radio, or thinking of an old friend and getting a call from them. Or, after much thought about a problem, they go for a walk and an inspired idea hits them "from out of nowhere" unrelated to their original train of thought. Quantum mechanics also points towards the interconnectedness of energy, by showing that the same thought (action on a particle) can change the motion of another matched particle. The patterns of thought may be considered by some as beginning (or continuing) in the mind of God, or simply existing as the fabric of the nonmaterial universe. But that's not important as we can see the effects of thought in our lives now. In the people whose brains rewired themselves to take up the slack of damaged or missing brain tissue, there was an overarching idea of function, a pattern of wholeness that directed the reconnections, done apart from any will of the people involved. No conscious volition by an individual was used to make those reconnections; they didn't even know there was a problem. But the pattern re-established itself with the available brain cells. The idea of "sight" brought the connections into being to create sight. Is the idea of function located in the cell? In the Mind of God? It surely was not in the conscious volition of the individual, but where was it? Does it matter? What matters is the pattern itself, influencing the direct activity of cells in their part, or atoms in the quantum experiments or in the connections we make with old friends. The pattern of Life is more than than the individual intelligence that expresses it. The patterns of wholeness and intelligence are more than the individual bodies or minds that express it. Edited by Will Seamus Ennis, : No reason given. Edited by Will Seamus Ennis, : grammar, y'all
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Will Seamus Ennis Junior Member (Idle past 5387 days) Posts: 13 From: Huntsville, AL Joined: |
Ah, so, but we ARE bigger than our brains. There is research to show that other cognitive and/or cognitive-enhancing processes are happening, often faster and clearer than the brain...
in the gut...http://www.psyking.net/id36.htm and in the heart...HeartMath Institute I also believe that there is extra potential in the cells that exist in the brain, latent potential for new connections that are made when old ones are destroyed or rerouted due to damage. The pattern exists in there somewhere, in potential, written in whatever code, that isn't manifest until it's needed. They are starting to find the "switches" in cells that respond to cell death signals from ALS and Alzheimers as shown here.http://www.sciencedaily.com/...ases/2009/02/090202174644.htm Edited by Will Seamus Ennis, : No reason given. Edited by Will Seamus Ennis, : grammar
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