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Author Topic:   Another "New" View of Creation
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3268 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 19 of 64 (516027)
07-22-2009 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Will Seamus Ennis
07-22-2009 5:59 PM


Re: re-done, let me know what you think.
In order to make up the molecules of a carpet fiber, certain atoms become linked either naturally or forced by a mfg process. Certain atoms don't. This natural affinity or repulsion is part of its signature, and is true of that type of atom no matter where in the Universe it's from. This pattern of combination is repeatable under the same conditions now or in a hundred million years.
I see this as the basic intelligence visible within that atomic structure.
So, when something reacts as it's physical properties make it react (like an inflated rubber ball bounces when it hits a solid surface due to its elasticity and rebound) that indicates intelligence? The fact that a round peg won't go in a square hole is a sign of intelligence? It's really just a function of reality having a set of laws. You could argue that the cause of those rules is intelligent, but the consequences of those rules are not, by any definition, intelligent themselves.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Will Seamus Ennis, posted 07-22-2009 5:59 PM Will Seamus Ennis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Richard Townsend, posted 07-22-2009 6:17 PM Perdition has not replied
 Message 21 by Richard Townsend, posted 07-22-2009 6:21 PM Perdition has not replied
 Message 22 by Will Seamus Ennis, posted 07-22-2009 9:10 PM Perdition has replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3268 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 32 of 64 (516090)
07-23-2009 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Will Seamus Ennis
07-22-2009 9:10 PM


Re: re-done, let me know what you think.
so perdition, when, in your POV, does intelligence begin?
Is it when volition takes place? at what point of volition? Does a creature have to have brain? of what size? how do you measure it? How do you define it? Is that your opinion or scientific fact?
Intelligence requires a mind. It requires the ability to understand, to make decisions, and yes, to have volition. In short, it requires a brain or other similar apparatus.
And that's just based off the DEFINITION of intelligence. It doesn't have to be a scientific fact that circles have a round shape...it's part of the definition of the word circle. I could say that a block of wood displays circularity because it sits there doing what blocks of wood does. This would be wrong though, because a block fo wood sitting there does not show any aspect of what being a circle means, I'm just redefining a word that everyone already knows the original definition for.
There have been experiments where a cell in an embryo was moved from one point in the embryo to another. Because this cell had the "programming" to become a brain cell or a heart cell, the cell moved back to its natural position in the embryo, where it could form the basis of similar cells. Is this intelligence? Is it volition? Did some outside agency move it back?
No, it's not intelligence, it's programming, it's natural laws. It's a predictable reaction caused by a known stimulus.
Please note that this is least as important, as nebulous, and as open to personal opinion as the question of when life begins to the abortion/choice debate.
No it's not. Life has an ambiguous definition that allows many people to make a judgement call on the exact point. Intelligence, has a much more rigid definition than you're employing. While there are reasons to question what actually displays intelligence in the animal world, that does not mean you can jump to the complete other end of the spectrum and say, maybe there's intelligence here, too. There can be honest debate about which point in the light spectrum orange becomes red, but you can't go to blue and say, there's red here because we don't know exactly where orange stops and red begins.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Will Seamus Ennis, posted 07-22-2009 9:10 PM Will Seamus Ennis has not replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3268 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 54 of 64 (516261)
07-24-2009 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by crawler30
07-24-2009 10:45 AM


Re: Intelligent Design
I did not say that all spieces would be able to change enough all the time. But it also goes without saying that life would have ended if there were not a huge amount of spieces that did in fact survive the same occurance that killed the dinosaurs.
There are many mass extinction events throughout history. There's the Permian Extinction, the Cretaceous Extinction, just to name a few. Some of these events have wiped out upwards of 99% of all extant species. The fact that a few survive isn't too surprising though, because small creatures require small amounts of food, and can find something somewhere on which to live until the environment heals.
In fact, that's what happened after the dinosaurs, mammals were all pretty small, mouse sized for the most part, and could survive on the scraps left after the asteroid hit. Birds, likewise, were pretty small. Animals have a will to survive, and will do all within their power to find food, water, and a mate. The animals that can't, die, the ones thast do, live.
It doesn't take a huge amount of species, it only takes a handful, and they will quite rapidly (in evolutionary terms) expand to fill all the available niches. That's how mammals could rise to supremacy, the reptiles who had been in charge mostly died out, leaving a lot of open niches to fill.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by crawler30, posted 07-24-2009 10:45 AM crawler30 has not replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3268 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 59 of 64 (516323)
07-24-2009 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by lyx2no
07-24-2009 3:32 PM


Re: Equivocation?
If I can see, touch, smell or taste Miley I'll give you a hundred dollars.
Interesting turn of phrase...do you think crawler is her pimp?
Edited by Perdition, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by lyx2no, posted 07-24-2009 3:32 PM lyx2no has not replied

  
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