Onifre writes:
As an aside, do you have anything similar to Halloween over there? I know many parts of the world don't celebrate it per se but have a simliar "day of the dead" festival - or something like that.
no we dont have anything like halloween. Our celebrations are our public holidays, Australia Day (1st landings in australia), Anzac Day (war), Queens Birthday, Easter, Christmas & the Melbourne Cup (horserace)
onifre writes:
Oh - Well in that case, many things stem from pagan tradition. In fact, government stems from pagan religions. Think of the Greeks and their influences on modern politics.
thats true...interestingly JW's dont vote in politics.
onifre writes:
Have you researched this? As far as Christmas is concerned, it's impossible to be from pagan sunworship if the origin of the word "Christmas" is about 1000 years after Christ. And Santa Claus is on about 150 years old or so.
i have looked into it here are some quotes:
quote:
Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church.The Catholic Encyclopedia.
The first mention of the celebration of Christmas occurred in A.D.336 in an early Roman calendar.The World Book Encyclopedia.
The observance of Christmas is not of divine appointment, nor is it of N[ew] T[estament] origin. The day of Christ’s birth cannot be ascertained from the N.T., or, indeed, from any other source. The fathers of the first three centuries do not speak of any special observance of the nativity.Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, by McClintock and Strong.
Inexplicable though it seems, the date of Christ’s birth is not known. The Gospels indicate neither the day nor the month.New Catholic Encyclopedia.
The World BookEncyclopediastates: This celebration [Christmas] was probably influenced by pagan (unchristian) festivals held at that time. The ancient Romans held year-end celebrations to honor Saturn, their harvest god; and Mithras [the sun god].
The New Catholic Encyclopedia says: On Dec. 25, 274, [Roman emperor] Aurelian had proclaimed the sun-god [Mithras] principal patron of the empire ... Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the sun was particularly strong at Rome.
The book Celebrations states: The clergy eventually brought the ... world of the Saturnalia into the Church itself.
Encyclopaedia Britannica notes that December 25 was regarded as the birth date of the ... [sun] god Mithra.
The church of Rome actually hijacked a Roman celebration. The Romans’ favorite festival was Saturnalia, which began on December 17 and ended with the ‘birthday of the unconquered sun’ on December 25. Somewhere in the second quarter of the fourth century, the church of Rome decided December 25 would be the day to celebrate the birthday of the ‘sun of righteousness' Jesus.
It didnt matter that Jesus was not born in December but they likely saw it as a way to be accepted by the pagans...or as a way to turn the pagans attention away from their own religions. The chuch wanted converts and this was perhaps one way to get them.
onifre writes:
As far as Easter, I think your issue is not with what it represents but with the name Easter. That's the problem with this traditon is that the different cultures named it something different, and that's where the connections to greek gods/godesses etc., are made. But the holiday itself has it's own definition: the celebration of the death and resurrection of Christ.
Also, and this is important to note, Easter is a moveable feast, which basically means it has no fixed day it should be celebrated on. - Here again I'm curious how you came to the conclusion that it was pagan?
I understand that Easter is to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. Yet the customs that go along with Easter have very little do do with Christ, ie hot cross buns, eggs, rabbits, new clothes, and so forth. These have no association with Christ but they do have a long association with the spring of the year.
quote:
An Encyclopedia of Religion, by Ferm, says: Pagan practices were introduced into the Christian observance of Easter at an early age on account of the fact that the feast coincided with the beginning of spring. ... At that season of the year, the New Year and the creation of the world were celebrated in ancient times by an exchange of gifts (Easter eggs) and by generous hospitality to friends, to the poor, and so forth.
About hot cross buns
The Encyclopdia Britannica (1959 Edition), Vol. 4, p. 381. writes:
Like the Greeks, the Romans ate bread marked with a cross ... at public sacrifices, such bread being usually purchased at the doors of the temple and then taken in with thema custom alluded to by St.Paul in 1Cor. x. 28. The cross-bread was eaten by pagan Saxons in honour of Easter, their goddess of light. The Mexicans and Peruvians are shown to have had a similar custom. The custom, in fact, was practically universal, and the early Church adroitly adopted the practice, grafting it on to the Eucharist and so giving us the hot crossbun.
About Easter Eggs
The Catholic Encyclopedia writes:
The custom may have its origin in paganism, for a great many pagan customs, celebrating the return of spring, gravitated to Easter. The egg is the emblem of the germinating life of early spring. Vol. 5, pp. 225-227
Concerning the Easter bunny, this same religious authority states: The Easter Rabbit lays the eggs, for which reason they are hidden in a nest or in the garden. The rabbit is a pagan symbol and has always been an emblem of fertility. Vol. 5, pp. 225-227
Even the early Easter sunrise service is not without pagan antecedents. According to old superstition, the sun rising on Easter morning dances in the heavens; this belief has been traced to old heathen festivals of spring, when the spectators danced in honor to the sun. The Encyclopdia Britannica (1959 Edition), Vol. 7, p. 531.
And the same must be said of the impressive ceremony that takes place throughout Christendom on the day before Easter in which new fire is blessed and certain candles and lamps are lit. A detailed description of this ceremony includes the following: The obtaining and blessing of the new fire is probably a rite of Celtic or even pagan origin, incorporated in the Gallican Church service of the eighth century. The Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 7, p. 438
onifre writes:
And with the birthdays, why does it have to be anything other than a personal recogition of the birth of your child/husband/friend/etc? Why make any connection to anything? In fact, rituals celebrating ones birth even pre-date religions.
i know birthdays seem to be harmless fun and this is the biggest point of contention between my husband and I.
The interesting thing about birthdays is that the early christians were opposed to them. That is likely due to the nature of the celebrations in their day. An example is that the early church 'father' Origen, wrote in a homily on Leviticus xii 2, that
"none of the saints can be found who ever held a feast or a banquet upon his birthday, or rejoiced on the day when his son or his daughter was born. But sinners rejoice and make merry on such days."
I dont consider Origen to be an inspired writer, but what he wrote was factual about the views the christians held at that time and therefore I can safely conclude that the early christians did not participate in birthday celebrations.
Even the Ancient Jews did not celebrate birthdays. In the Bible there is no instance of birthday celebrations among the Jews themselves for they regarded birthday celebrations as parts of idolatrous worship. This is understandable because the nations around them were practices of false worship and it seems that birthdays were a part of their customs, the very customs that the jews viewed as religious in nature and opposed to their God.
I know birthdays are not religous in nature today, but its about the roots of the customs. We can dress any celebration up in a different costume but the roots remain and I must view the celebration in light of what i know about its roots. Early christians did not celebrate birthdays, nor did Jesus... also, christians are mean to be followers of Christ...would i be following his example if I practiced customs that he did not practice?
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