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Author Topic:   Is there any proof of beneficial mutations?
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 60 of 166 (579956)
09-06-2010 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by frako
09-06-2010 9:51 AM


He blinded you with science.
Don't get discouraged, frako--your understanding is in the right place, even if you misread WK's post.
We often do see creationists throwing a fog of pseudo-scientific terminology at us; I'm sure the language difference contributed to the misunderstanding, though you communicate your ideas clearly.
You'll see that WK doesn't say much, but what he does say is awfully pithy.

Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello
Real things always push back.
-William James

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 Message 51 by frako, posted 09-06-2010 9:51 AM frako has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 103 of 166 (580596)
09-10-2010 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by greyseal
09-10-2010 3:01 AM


Re: Cause of mutation?
Hi, greyseal.
Africa, on the other hand, did not suffer the black death, nor anything like it, and the mutation (which does exist) is not so common. As a whole, then, Africans are far more likely to die of aids than europeans (it's something like 15% in europe versus less than 2% in Africa).
Do those numbers represent the incidence of the AIDS-resistant mutation?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by greyseal, posted 09-10-2010 3:01 AM greyseal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by greyseal, posted 09-10-2010 8:16 AM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


(1)
Message 111 of 166 (580615)
09-10-2010 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by greyseal
09-10-2010 8:16 AM


Re: Cause of mutation?
I've been googling the subject for the past hour as well.
You'll find I am not averse to online research; it was not your numbers but your syntax I was unsure of, and it seemed more civil to ask than to research and assert.
It's a fascinating subject: your numbers hold up. The resistance could also partially explain the greater impact of HIV on the African-American community
It appears homozygosity of the allele confers nearly complete immunity, heterozygosity, greater resistance to both infection and progression; fortunately, neither appears to confer any deleterious effect.
The more recent study abstracts I've been able to view confirm the immunity/resistance, but question the bacterial/bubonic cause, hypothesizing instead a virus, perhaps a hemorrhagic fever like Ebola, or even smallpox.
From a 2007 popular account:
quote:
The source of that genetic pressure is still being debated by scientists. The early favorite was the Black Death, the Bubonic plague that swept through Europe in the Fourteenth century.
Other researchers have hypothesized that the period of selective pressure created by the Bubonic plague, roughly 400 years, was not
long enough for the overwhelming presence of the gene to appear.
These researchers suggest that smallpox, which has killed as many people as the plague over a much longer time period, could have provided sufficient selective pressure.
To support this conclusion, it is proposed that the continued presence of the mutated gene...is due to the fact that smallpox was only eradicated recently while the plague hasn't been a serious problem in 250 years. Indeed, a cousin of the smallpox virus has been shown to use CCR5 to enter host cells. Thus, CCR5-32 may provide resistance to smallpox.
Since I enjoy an apparent immunity to chickenpox and smallpox, perhaps survival of my wayward youth had more to do with lucky genes than anything else.

Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello
Real things always push back.
-William James

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by greyseal, posted 09-10-2010 8:16 AM greyseal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by greyseal, posted 09-10-2010 1:03 PM Omnivorous has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 113 of 166 (580619)
09-10-2010 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Dr Jack
09-10-2010 10:37 AM


Re: Cause of mutation?
Mr Jack writes:
(Oh, and BTW, whether the CCR5 Δ32 variant is actually a beneficial mutation depends on context because while it protects against AIDS, it makes the carrier more susceptible to West Nile Virus.
Thanks for adding that; I had thought there were no deleterious effects of the CCR5 Δ32 variant.
I've had West Nile, subjectively experienced as a mild flu. Whether selected for by the bubonic plagues or by multiple viral outbreaks, the variant sounds like a winner.
Has there been any new work on clarifying the selective pressure which ramped up the variant in European populations?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Dr Jack, posted 09-10-2010 10:37 AM Dr Jack has replied

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