Jesus The false prophet

Matthew 16 is most certainly referring to the end times. We have to take a step back and read the context, not only of the surrounding verses in Chapter 16, but those before and after.Read Chapter 13, Jesus makes it quite clear the Kingdom of Heaven refers not to something within, but external. He also makes it clear angels will arrive during this time of calamity.40 As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.47 Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.So we know for sure, the Kingdom of Heaven is something that will arrive, angels will be present.Matthew 16:17 Jesus replied, Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[b] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven. 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.Again, its quite clear the Kingdom of Heaven is not something within. Its something that will arrive.21 From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.Jesus is speaking to his disciples. That is his audience.22 Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. Never, Lord! he said. This shall never happen to you!
23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 25 For whoever wants to save their life[f] will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it. 26 What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. 28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.Its has been suggested Matthew 16, verse 28 refers to the Transfiguration. How could it? Were angels present? Was each person rewarded for their actions? Which in Revelation, clearly lays out its to occur during the end times: Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.Also, which disciple died before the Transfiguration?To go further, Matthew 19:23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.Jesus again clarifies what the Kingdom of Heaven is.Now, I'm going to skip Chapter 24, which obviously refers to the end times occurring during his disciples lifetime..and jump to chapter 25. Jesus once again clearly speaks of the end times, with angels.31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

The topic which you were addressing was Matthew 16:28.My entire post addressed that verse, with the surrounding verses, to show it refers to the end times, during his disciples lifetime. I gave the context.You gave these rules to disern what the context is:

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The first primary rule is the 5 point question rule as follows.
1. Who is speaking or writing?
2. To whom or about whom is he/she speaking or writing?
3. About what subject is he/she speaking or writing?
4. When, or about what time is he/she speaking or writing?
5. What is the occasion for the speaking or writing?

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I addressed each within my post. Granted, its not as well organized as your post, but nonetheless, it covers each point.You even stated:

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Jesus speaking, to His disciples (at least) about the kingdom (that they have been told is within them).

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The Kingdom of Heaven in Matthew refers to an external kingdom.My entire premise for my intial post was not only addressing your post, but others as well, concering Matthew 16:28.The verse clearly shows Jesus is refering to the end times, when angels shall appear, makind will be judged and some disciples willl still be present when this occurs.Take care.

Hey PD,

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The author of Matthew is the only one that said the son of man would come in his kingdom.
The other two synoptics said the kingdom of God.

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Since Matthew and Luke pulled from Mark, it is usually better to argue what Mark presented. It is believed to be written closer to 70 AD than the other two. The author of Mark also presented Jesus as a mortal, not divine.

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Why is it better? The discussion (at least when I joined in) was Matthew 16. ICANT focused on that lone verse and took the stance that it was not in error. I simply pointed out that it was. Jesus predicted the end times during his disciples lifetime. Just because Matthew "copied" from Mark does not mean he shares the exact same ideas and theology.

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Now Jesus can only be considered a false prophet if he actually claimed that the message was from God and then attempted to lead his followers to other gods.

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I think we're talking about semantics here. Jesus most certainly went around predicting when the end times were to occur...and he was wrong. I understand what you're saying. I was not disputing the "defintion" of what a prophet is according to the Bible, but ICANTs stance on Matthew 16.

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A prediction that doesn't come about doesn't automatically mean Jesus was a false prophet.

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I disagree...at least when Jesus is concerned.1) Most Christians believe he was god himself. I would say an all knowing being who cannot predict his own end times...most certainly means he is a false prophet.2) Since Jesus was not god though, but divine, sent by god while claiming that his message is FROM god...I would say thats also a good indictater that he is a false prophet.

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The rules of condemning false prophets and God's past behavior give legitimate support for Jesus not being a false prophet.

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You would need to show that Jesus claimed the message was from God or that Jesus tried to have his followers follow other gods.

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Well, showing Jesus claiming that his message was from god is easy, its in the gospels. As for showing Jesus trying to have his followers follow another god...well, again, semantics. Obviously the god Jesus was preaching was not the Jewish version.

I know you are addressing Franko, but can you please elaborate? Which disciples, that Jesus was speaking to in Matthew 16, died?Also, can you please also show me during the transfiguration where Jesus:1) Sat on his throne.
2) Angels arrived.
3) All nations were gathered before him.
4) People were seperated.
5) Righteous rewarded.Context Buzz, context.

Hi ICANT.Yes, in message 52 you only addressed Matthew 24. In your previous message, which you only posted minutes earlier, you focused on Matthew 16.I responded to message 52, instead of message 51 and addressed the issue of Matthew 16.Are you really going to suggest you didnt know what I was post I was refering to when you laid out an entire well thought out post on Matthew 16 and my reponse was to Matthew 16? Did you really need two posts to bring to light I replied to the wrong post and not address the issue I presented? Sheesh.....If it was that confusing, I apologize. I'll try to be more careful in the future.In refering to post 51, Matthew 16 refers to the end times, which were to occur during the lifetime of his disciples. You disagree. You also mentioned the kingdom of heaven mentioned in Matthew 16 was internal. I disagree.Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.

Hi PD. I was editing my last post when you responded.I hope you do not get annoyed with some of my questions. I just need some clarification on some issues presented. Here is where you lose me. Why bring Mark into it? The stance I was taking was in response to the belief that Matthew 16 did not refer to the end times to occur during the disciples life time. Yes, Matthew "used" Mark, but I am unsure why that matters. Even though Matthew used Mark, he changed quite a bit regarding the theology and other aspects of the stories.Since we are debating if Jesus was a false prophet, we need to establish what Matthew is conveying.Primary point IMO, is if its a prediction of future events. Yes. Did it come to pass? No.Regardless of the viewpoints of Mark, its what Matthew is trying to state.Two different authors can have two different viewpoints of the same event. He gave a fantastic, well written response. The problem is, hes absolutely incorrect. Thats wny I addressed it. Jeremiah 14:14Then the Lord said to me, Those prophets are prophesying lies while claiming my authority. I did not send them. I did not commission them. And I did not speak to them. They are just prophesying to these people false visions, worthless predictions, and the delusions of their own mind. I did not send those prophets, though they claim to be prophesying in my authority.This clearly states a false prohet is anyone who speaks falsely on gods account.Jesus claimed to be sent by god. He claimed to be the messiah.John 7:16 "Jesus answered them and said, 'My doctrine is not mine, but His who sent me.' "John 14:24 "He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine but The Father's who sent me."John 12:49 "For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak."John 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of Him who sent me."John 8:31 "You are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from GodJohn 7:16 So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but His who sent me."There are quite a few others by Paul and a few in the other gospels which clearly conveys that Jesus is the messenger, speaking the will of god.The gospels convey the idea that those words are the words Jesus spoke. Regardless of the gospel they are coming from.You asked that I show you where god didnt change his mind. negating the false prophecy aspect. No, you need to show me where it states god DID change him mind.Jesus made a prediction in Matthew 16, he was wrong. There are many instances in the gospels where Jesus makes a prediction regarding the end times and he was wrong each time.So if Jesus admits he was sent by god, is the messenger of god, that his will is not his own and predicts when the end times were to occur...how is this not the sign of a false prophet? Yes, you could argue that the synoptics do not say all things spoken by Jesus were a direct message of god. But a better argument is that when Jesus preached, yes, those were the words of god he was conveying. Also, I agree the messsage of Mark and Luke are different than Matthew. Im just not sure why you keep bringing Mark up, now with Luke. I was discussing Matthew 16. This is where you keep losing me. The point is, yes they are different in many respects, but its Matthew 16 and that prediction which I am discussing. These are all the instances Matthew uses the terminlogy. It shows that the Kingdom of Heaven is something that will arrive in the future.At hand (3:2 ; 4:17 ; 10:7 )
Promised to the saved and righteous (5:3, 10, 19-20 ; 7:21 13:24-30, 36-43, 47-51 ; 22:1-14 ; 25:1-10 )
Gentiles will also be there (8:11 )
Difficult to enter (19:23 ; 23:13 ) I think I did.Jesus claimed to be the messiah.
Jesus claimed his words were not his own.
Jesus claimed he was sent by god, he was the messenger.
To get to god, one must go through him.
He preached. He made predictions.
Those predictions failed.So Im not sure how you can say Jesus was not a false prophet.Edited by hERICtic, : Combining previous post with updates.

Hi GDR, In chapter 24, Jesus is asked by his disciples when is the end of the age.In chapter 13, Jesus refers to the end of the age when the angels will come and the final judgement.Chapter 25 again speaks of the final judgement, when angels will arrive and seperate those who are saved and unsaved.You claim it refers to the Romans. Did these occur:Mattew 24: 29 Immediately after the distress of those days‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b]30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.Do you still think it has nothing to do with the end times? Not hard to be correct when the writings occured AFTER the event!

How dare you call me such an offensive word!!! nERICtic writes:
In chapter 24, Jesus is asked by his disciples when is the end of the age. I agree. To a point. Its not what the disciples were expecting thats the issue, its what Jesus claims.What is to occur at the end of this age, thats the question?Before I address the rest of your post, let me ask you this. In reference to Matthew 25:31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.What does it mean that he will come in his glory, with his angels, sitting on his throne? Does this refer to the return of Jesus?

Good morning GDR.Actually, you may read this much later, so ignore that! How about, hello again! I think you're missing the bigger picture on what Jesus is trying to convey in Chapter 25.31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.46 Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.Do you agree Jesus is speaking of his return and the judgement of mankind?After all, he speaks of coming with angels, sitting on his throne, seperating mankind and sending those worthy to eternal life and those who are not to eternal punishment.Luke 21 also makes it quite clear, by coming in his glory, it refers to his return.27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.This is obviously not just refering to those "attributes", but an arrival.

I have debated quite a few Christians regarding the "second coming". Not one has ever stated that the "stars" and "heavens" are symbolic for the leaders and high priests. Interesting. Makes sense.But again, we are dealing with the time frame. The question regarding Matthew 24 is "when". Does it just say his disciples will face tribulation or does it go further and predict when Jesus will return?29 Immediately after the distress of those days‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b]30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.Jesus clearly states his return would be during his disciples lifetime. How can you not read that this is refering to his return?42 Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.Jesus, is telling his disciples that there will be signs before his return. He goes on to list those signs, then tells them to keep watch for his return. He tells them to keep watch for when HE will come.Remember, there werent any chapters originally. Chapter 25 is still Jesus talking about the same events. He clearly lays out what is going to happen when he returns. Judgement of mankind. Sitting on his throne, angels appearing, seperating those who will be saved from those who will not.This goes beyond just the Jews being scattered.Read Matthew 16, he states some are standing there who shall still be alive, as the angels come and mankind is rewarded.Chapter 13, Jesus again talks about seperating those saved and those who are not, Jesus coming into his kindgom with angels.You mention that it refers to a world in exile, which very well be. That the Jews were going to be scattered by the Romans. All this may be true, but this was the start of the end.Jesus just did not predict that riling up the Romans would create chaos and that the temple would fall, he stated these were the first signs of his return.

Hey GDR,The problem I am having with your explanation is not the part about the exile, but the part about the judgement. Using Daniel IMO, does not help your case. Yes, I can see where Jesus refers back to Daniel, I can see how it applies to the Romans, but it goes futher than that. Jesus clearly, as you pointed out is refering to the Romans and the Jews being scattered, but he also states that those events will coincide with his return.Lets just start with this verse:Matthew 25:46 Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.Does this have to do with just the Romans and the exile or mankinds final judgement.?Jesus also mentions angels a few times, are these symbolic or actual angels?Thanks.

Hey GDR.Hopefully, you have some time for me-you're pretty busy with Jon right now.Anway, I think you're tapdancing around the context.hERICtic writes:
Does this have to do with just the Romans and the exile or mankinds final judgement.? You admit that the ending of Chapter 25 does refer to the return of Jesus.Yet when Jesus builds up to this point in Chapter 25:31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.You say: You're changing the context. So Chapter 25, all the way until the very end of 25 is all about the exile, then Jesus just happens to throw in the end of time also?Chapter 24, the question is asked "when" is the end of the age. Yes, it starts with the Romans, but Jesus makes it clear by the end of Chapter 25, it ends with his return.Let me ask you a few questions.When will Jesus sit on his throne?
When the Jews are scattered or when he returns?
Do you thinkthe reference to angels arriving makes more sense when the Jews are being scattered or when Jesus returns?
When the Jews are scattered, will all the nations be gathered before him?
When the Jews are scattered, why is he seperating all the people before him?These verses make more sense to state that Jesus is refering to his return.What makes you think "coming on a cloud" is symbolism?Matthew 26:64
You have said so, Jesus replied. But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.Matthew clearly believes Jesus will be coming on a cloud.I Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.Does this match up with Matthew 25? Jesus coming on a cloud, angels?Revelation 1:7
Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all peoples on earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.Do you believe this is symbolism?Take care. Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.

Hi PD. I never stated there arent many styles and writings, nor did I suggest it is not symbolic. I do have an issue that the terminology "coming on clouds" is symbolic though. I see no evidence to sway me on this issue. In fact, it appears very clear that "coming on clouds" does refer to his second coming.What are your thoughts on this? All symbolism? Or do you think Matthew is refering to the return of Jesus? Coming in his glory? Angels with him? Sitting on this throne? Nations gathered before him? Seperating people, rewarding some, punishing others?31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’40 The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’44 They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’45 He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’46 Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. Not sure why you keep bringing up about what forum this is. I didnt start this debate on the second coming and others are discussing similiar issues. In fact, this thread is about Jesus being a false prophet. I have every intention after "proving" Jesus was wrong about his prediction of the end times to show why he is a false prophet. I havent forgetten what we were discussing earlier. I do understand the context of what was happening in Matthew. I think its vital, bc the author believed those were the end times. I think you are completely misunderstanding what I am stating. Again, I never stated there wasnt symbolism, I am stating the terminlogy "coming on clouds" actually means, just that, his return.In fact, just to have a clearer understanding of what GDR is trying to say, I went to close to 20 Christian sites looking up information on this topic. Every single one of them also believe that "coming on clouds" refers to the return of Jesus.You seem to focus on the fact that Matthew used OT scripture, which somehow automatically implies that he is using the same context as the author in the OT. Why assume that? Of the four gospels, Matthew uses quite a bit of OT scripture and twists the context to his own needs. Immanuel? "Seem to imply"? So you're not sure then.Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."Acts 1:9-11Do you believe this is symbolism? Doesnt is state that the same manner in which Jesus was taken up (clouds), he shall return?Now if this is the case, why wouldnt Matthew be using "coming on clouds" to mean the same?Take care.

Hi again. I have a lil time, so here goes... This is where we disagree.Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."Acts 1:9-11Are there clouds in this instance symbolic? Is this ascension symbolic? Where was heaven believed to be? In the air, up above. Sorry, but the clouds Jesus "floats" to, are literal. Notice it also states, when Jesus returns, it will be in the same manner!Mark 26 At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.Do you believe Mark is stating that Jesus is coming to the father and these verses have nothing to do with the return of Jesus?Why is Jesus sending his angels to go to the Father? It makes more sense to state the angels are with Jesus for his return to earth.1 Thessalonians 4
15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.Paul obviously believes the end times are near. Another example of "clouds", which clearly has shows they're literal. Those going to the clouds, to be with the Lord IN THE AIR.I'll use these verses again (below) to make my point. You earlier stated I was not using the correct context, not sure what you mean though. The context is god speaking. Exclaiming what is going to occur with Jesus. Now again, you claim the "clouds" refers to Jesus going to the Father. Yet, Jesus is aleady with god at this point, in heaven. It makes more sense to state "coming with clouds" is Jesus leaving heaven, for earth. In fact, it states those on earth will see him.7 Look, he is coming with the clouds,[b]
and every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him;
and all peoples on earth will mourn because of him.[c]
So shall it be! Amen.8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.Basically, our two viewpoints hinge on on crucial aspect. You believe "coming on clouds" means Jesus is GOING to the Father, while I hold the belief it means he is RETURNING to earth.Here is a key example where I have a serious problem with your viewpoint.You have admitted that Matthew 25: 46 refers to the end times. Yet when I give you:31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.You state: To me, it seems like you ignore the context competely.31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.Nations gathered before Jesus. Will this occur during the Roman crisis or after his return?34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’Mankind is seperated.37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’40 The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’Some will be rewarded.41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’Jesus is talking about punishment for those unsaved. Hell. Eternal fire. This will only occur after his return.44 They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’45 He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’46 Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.From verse 31 to 46, the words of Jesus clearly convey how he will return and what will occur.I'll be back in a few days if you respond. Take care.

Matthew twists quite a few OT scriptures to create his story.Matthew 1:23
The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him ImmanuelJesus was never called Immanuel. Matthew grabs this fromIsaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.Isaiah, which has been covered numerous times on this site, has nothing to do with Jesus whatsover.As I stated earlier, Matthew grabs quite a bit of OT scripture and creates stories around them, ignoring the initial context.Just bc Matthew used Daniel, doesnt mean it has the exact same meaning.Every Christian site I have ever read which has dealt with the second coming, and there have been hundreds through the years, have stated "coming on clouds" refers to Jesus return. I am not denying your viewpoint may be held by some, but the majority agree, it refers to his second coming. PD and yourself, seem to imply that Im in the minority here concerning which verses refer to the end times and which do not.Take care.Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.Edited by hERICtic, : Replaced "thread" with the "site".