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Author Topic:   Jesus The false prophet
frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 1 of 213 (619256)
06-09-2011 8:11 AM


The bible tells you to test prophets
King James Bible
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Deuteronomy 18:21-22:
"And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."
Mark 9:1
King James Version
1. And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
or Matthew 16:28, or Luke 9:27
he says basically the same thing
He fails the test: All of the people he was talking too are dead and no kingdom of god in sight.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminPD, posted 06-09-2011 8:29 AM frako has not replied
 Message 4 by purpledawn, posted 06-09-2011 10:51 AM frako has replied
 Message 9 by NoNukes, posted 06-09-2011 11:32 AM frako has replied
 Message 17 by GDR, posted 06-09-2011 1:51 PM frako has replied
 Message 25 by ICANT, posted 06-09-2011 5:19 PM frako has replied
 Message 38 by Chuck77, posted 06-10-2011 4:35 AM frako has replied
 Message 54 by Buzsaw, posted 06-10-2011 9:19 PM frako has replied
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frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 6 of 213 (619277)
06-09-2011 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by purpledawn
06-09-2011 10:51 AM


I would argue that Jesus didn't claim to be speaking in the name of Yhvh. He didn't say these words were from Yhvh.
Well then that settles the matter then he did not speak for god so he is not the son of god.
Or are you implying that in this instance he was not speaking for GOD but just throwing out lies to see if anyone would catch them. Like on his off time he was a liar but when god relay spoke to him then he would utter the word The LORD said.....

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frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 7 of 213 (619279)
06-09-2011 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by New Cat's Eye
06-09-2011 11:09 AM


Well if one takes in to account everything the bible says about him he would have had to consider himself a prophet, miracle worker, son of god or something of the like.

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frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 10 of 213 (619293)
06-09-2011 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by NoNukes
06-09-2011 11:32 AM


Good point, another propehcy that has failed the dheutoromy test,
As saying that mine refers to a sneek peek those guys get that is a long shot.
Why dint he just say when we get on top of that moutin il give you a sneak preview of whats going to happen a gazillion years after i die.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

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frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 16 of 213 (619321)
06-09-2011 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Jon
06-09-2011 12:17 PM


Re: False Truths
That doesn't follow. Many sons do not speak for their fathers; that doesn't terminate their familial ties.
Lets say my father is your boss in your company and i go and talk to the workers including you and say well the company is broke so you will all be fired soon.
So when i am talking about the company being broke i give the impression that my father your boss in the bible storry god told me that the company is going to shit, right.
If in fact it turns out that the company does not go borke and it lasts for 2000 years i must have lied about the state of the company, and as it turned out i had no buisnes saying that the company is borke cause its my fathers company, and he dint tell me to say anything about the company to the workers.
I don't think there is any lying involved. Even if Jesus actually said these things, he wasn't lying; he was just wrong. There's a difference.
Again, why are you assuming there is lying involved? Can't someone simply be wrong without being a liar?
And still he made a claim that did not come to pass so he is a false prophet like good ol deutoromy says

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frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 21 of 213 (619382)
06-09-2011 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by GDR
06-09-2011 1:51 PM


So where is this kingdom of god whiteout borders ?? Or is there any evidence of it ever existing???
What about when he says the kinghdom of god will come with power??
That sounds like he is going to march on earth whit an army of angels to kill off the infidels and leave only the mindless slaves who worship him whiteout question.

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Replies to this message:
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frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 22 of 213 (619385)
06-09-2011 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by purpledawn
06-09-2011 3:26 PM


Re: False Truths
Only if he claimed the message was from God. You haven't shown evidence that he claimed he was presenting a message from God.
Sure i get it now
Jesus the son of god the prophet of god and god himself (all at the same time), forgot to mention to his apostles:" the last thing i have just said, is not from gods mouth(my mouth) nor was i speaking to you as a prophet i was talking to you as a man, in truth i in my godly form have blocked any knowledge of the time i come to rule this world from my fleshy form and i in my godly form have not convaied any such knowledge to my fleshy prophet form i was only speaking to you in my normal fleshy form so you can take it as a wild guess. Just so there are no misunderstandings in the future
I can see why this bit would be skipped from the bible

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frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 24 of 213 (619404)
06-09-2011 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by purpledawn
06-09-2011 4:39 PM


Re: False Truths
Him with the Word, the only-begotten of the Father, Who from all eternity exists with God, Who is God (John 1:1-18).
"Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?" (14:10),
John 10
28 And I give them life everlasting: and they shall not perish for ever. And no man shall pluck them out of my hand. 29 That which my Father has given me is greater than all: and no one can snatch them out of the hand of my Father. 30 I and the Father are one.

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frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 26 of 213 (619411)
06-09-2011 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by ICANT
06-09-2011 5:19 PM


Re: Kingdom Authority
Um so he came with power how ??
And one would think that when the kingdom of god comes it was here to stay or was it there just for that day ?
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

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frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 29 of 213 (619418)
06-09-2011 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by GDR
06-09-2011 5:53 PM


Essentially it's his world wide church, empowered by His Holy Spirit.
That would be the roman catholic version right the other churches are imposers and usurpers to his church.
That actually became a church some 200-400 years later kinda late for the not tasting death part wouldn't you agree??
Before that time the church had no power and its members where hunted down as pagans who would not worship the son of god you know the roman emperor.
Jesus brought a new way to have power and rule. His way of ruling is to serve. His route to power is love. However, just as the Hebrews more often than not messed it up in the time of the OT, the church more often than not messes it up today.
The power of love and servitude wasent quite felt by other religions at the time of the curch becoming the state religion of Rome almost immediately the church started to hunt down pagan worshipers. So no power of love for the church to be the one to come with power.
And as i mentioned the church was formed to late to account for the many shall not taste death part.

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frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 30 of 213 (619419)
06-09-2011 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by GDR
06-09-2011 6:02 PM


Re: Kingdom Authority
Dont worry i don't mind if i get an F in Theology, it kinda dosen't show on the report card

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frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 32 of 213 (619430)
06-09-2011 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by GDR
06-09-2011 6:17 PM


Not at all, the first church was in a sense Jesus and His disciples, but in another sense the first church would be when the disciples were empowered by the Holy Spirit.
so basically what Jesus meant to say was some of you will become "super-heroes" in service of god before you die?
Or the kingdom of god has already come you just dont know it yet and NONE of you will taste death before the kingdom comes because i am that kingdom, and i am already here.
Would it not be simpler to take the prophecy literally, it says some of you will not die before my father comes and rules the earth.

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 Message 86 by Dawn Bertot, posted 06-12-2011 4:52 PM frako has replied

frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 34 of 213 (619442)
06-09-2011 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by purpledawn
06-09-2011 7:15 PM


Re: Synoptics
The book of John is not one of the synoptics and was a much later writing.
The book of John does not have that speech by Jesus, so it really doesn't contribute to the discussion.
So the book of John is wrong and Jesus is not god it do-sent matter what the apostles believed Jesus was. If Jesus is god then he should have known that god was not coming before some taste death. Unless something like my previous reply happened.
And if he was considered a prophet any words of prophecy would be taken as that they are coming directly from god. Deuthoromy says it clearly if the prophecy does not come true do not fear the prophet because he does not speak for god. And if he does not speak for god he is no prophet and what else that he said was also not spoken for god but from his own mouth and his own ideas.

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 Message 42 by purpledawn, posted 06-10-2011 6:51 AM frako has replied

frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 39 of 213 (619498)
06-10-2011 5:12 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Jon
06-09-2011 8:32 PM


Re: Synoptics
Can you show in any book where Jesus speaks something that he both claims to be from God and that also ends up being false?
Do you think its logical to assume that when he predicted that the holy kingdom will come before before some of the listeners taste death he was just making it up and not speaking for god. And that the others who listened knew it? I think it is obvious he is trying to put words in gods mouth. Ergo false prophet.
Its like saying The commander at nor rad wasn't talking as the commander of norrad when he told the president the Russians are launching nukes you can plainly see that when he deint tell the president i am speaking for the team in norrad. The president was foolish to launch nukes at Russia for that.
If you are a prophet then every prophecy you make should be from god there are no loopholes of not having his prophet hat on.
Then i can be a prophet tomorrow the end of times will come hey if i miss the date i wast talking from god but im still a prophet its going to happen after tomorrow, and when it finaly happens (the day hell freezes over) i can say see i am a prophet this prophecy came directly from god.

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frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 40 of 213 (619499)
06-10-2011 5:17 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Chuck77
06-10-2011 4:35 AM


To say Jesus was a false prophet is 1, admiting he existed and 2, that he had followers. If he existed you believe that based on the account of the Bible and can't use the same Bible to discredit him at the same time.
Um lets say an account balance book would show you are a grate dona tor to the poor and at the same time it can show you are an embezzler. Or since the book provides clear evidence you are a good person that donates to the poor that book canot be used to prove that you also embezzle money.
I dont care about the other prophecies that where bent over backwards to fit with Jesus, i care about his FALSE PROPHECY

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