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EvC Forum ⇒ Science Forums ⇒ Is It Science? ⇒ Nature's innate intelligence. Does it exist? ⇒

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Author Topic:   Nature's innate intelligence. Does it exist?
Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010

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Message 167 of 303 (638456)
10-22-2011 12:16 PM 		Reply to: Message 164 by GDR
10-22-2011 10:17 AM

Re: Devils Advocate...
GDR writes:
​
I'm probably seriously out of my depth...
Unfortunately, I am definitely out of my depth.
In regard to QM I can do little more than quote web-pages and take a stab at what they mean.
​
GDR writes:
​
I would think that quantum indeterminacy functions within the framework of natural laws.
I would think so too. But then what effect does it have? (I don't know.)
​
GDR writes:
​
When I checked wiki it seems that there are several different ideas on what people mean by determinism.
Yes. There seems to be an over-arching concept of Determinism and also several 'more specific' versions.
​
GDR writes:
​
Aside from that though is anyone suggesting that I don't have a choice about what I'm posting right now as it was all determined?
(I am not sure which 'that' we are 'aside') but I am definitely suggesting that your reply was inevitable due to the 'programming' your brain had received up to the point when you clicked 'Submit Reply'.
​
Most people are happy with the concept of "cause and effect" (skipping over the god stuff for this thread).
But people are then confident that their choices can be random and uncaused.
But if people truly made random choices then Derren Brown would be out of a job.
​
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by GDR, posted 10-22-2011 10:17 AM GDR has not replied
  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010

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Message 211 of 303 (638969)
10-27-2011 9:54 AM 		Reply to: Message 210 by zi ko
10-27-2011 9:52 AM

Re: innate intelligence
zi ko writes:
​
instead of arguing about semantics and accusing others of doing so, you could answer the topic question (according to my own definition of inelligence)?
Do you understand irony?
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by zi ko, posted 10-27-2011 9:52 AM zi ko has not replied
  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010

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Message 243 of 303 (639228)
10-29-2011 5:06 AM 		Reply to: Message 239 by zi ko
10-28-2011 8:38 PM

Re: innate intelligence
zi ko writes:
​
rocs and clouds are subjected to physical laws. This makes them arudimentary intelligent, not in the way you percieve it.
But rocks and clouds are intelligent in the way that you perceive it, yes?
​
Using your definition of 'intelligence', everything (including rocks and clouds) is 'intelligent', yes?
​
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by zi ko, posted 10-28-2011 8:38 PM zi ko has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by zi ko, posted 10-29-2011 10:13 AM Panda has replied
 Message 245 by jar, posted 10-29-2011 10:15 AM Panda has replied
  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010

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(1)
Message 248 of 303 (639253)
10-29-2011 1:11 PM 		Reply to: Message 244 by zi ko
10-29-2011 10:13 AM

Re: innate intelligence
zi ko writes:
​
Panda writes:
​
zi ko writes:
​
rocs and clouds are subjected to physical laws. This makes them arudimentary intelligent, not in the way you percieve it.
But rocks and clouds are intelligent in the way that you perceive it, yes?
Using your definition of 'intelligence', everything (including rocks and clouds) is 'intelligent', yes?
Yes.
So - using your definition of 'intelligence' -
zi ko writes:
​
Intelligence: I don’t give it the original meaning of the word (namely, to choose between contingent alternatives). What I really mean is: in response to environmental and other factors, a naturally inside organism pre-existing mechanism, and by force of chemistry and physics, causes changes in the genome.
- the 'intelligence' of rocks and clouds causes changes in their genomes.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by zi ko, posted 10-29-2011 10:13 AM zi ko has not replied
  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010

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Message 249 of 303 (639254)
10-29-2011 1:13 PM 		Reply to: Message 245 by jar
10-29-2011 10:15 AM

Re: innate intelligence
jar writes:
​
But what about "red bricks"?
Sorry - I am not familiar with the "red bricks" reference.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by jar, posted 10-29-2011 10:15 AM jar has not replied
  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010

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Message 279 of 303 (640063)
11-07-2011 7:47 AM 		Reply to: Message 278 by zi ko
11-07-2011 7:28 AM

Re: innate intelligence
zi ko writes:
​
There is not any vagueness. Just a different approach.
But as I pointed out earlier, your definition makes no sense...
Message 248
zi ko writes:
​
rocs and clouds are subjected to physical laws. This makes them arudimentary intelligent, not in the way you percieve it.
Panda writes:
​
But rocks and clouds are intelligent in the way that you perceive it, yes?
Using your definition of 'intelligence', everything (including rocks and clouds) is 'intelligent', yes?
zi ko writes:
​
Yes.
So - using your definition of 'intelligence' -
zi ko writes:
​
Intelligence: I don’t give it the original meaning of the word (namely, to choose between contingent alternatives). What I really mean is: in response to environmental and other factors, a naturally inside organism pre-existing mechanism, and by force of chemistry and physics, causes changes in the genome.
- the 'intelligence' of rocks and clouds causes changes in their genomes.
​
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by zi ko, posted 11-07-2011 7:28 AM zi ko has not replied
  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010

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(1)
Message 298 of 303 (640416)
11-09-2011 10:24 AM

Summation
zi ko writes:
​
...no previous studies on the matter, not any kind of help or guidance, trying to formulate a comprehensive new theory of evolution , anew paradigm of it. It is really insane. BUT I HAD TO GET IT KNOWN. I want to believe it will be proved, at least in some aspects, right.
I consider this to be a honest confession of the invalidity of the Innate Intelligence hypothesis.
I cannot say anything that could undermine the claim of legitimacy more than zi ko's own comments.
If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue
  
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