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Author Topic:   The folly of "authority"
Evlreala
Member (Idle past 3105 days)
Posts: 88
From: Portland, OR United States of America
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 1 of 25 (650325)
01-29-2012 11:07 PM


I've been seeing a lot of posts from both sides of "the argument" using scientific qualifications as a means to make (what I understand to be) arguments from authority.
This got me wondering about my understanding of the use of scientific qualifications.
Here's my understanding of it all;
I've always been under the impression that one's credentials were simply a way to demonstrate the accomplishment of an established standardof an amount of work to show a level of understanding (and/or competence) in a given field to the satisfaction of instructers with greater understanding/experience/training/knowlege in given field of study.
I could understand how this would grant weight behind the opinions of one with such qualifications in a field, however, this does not make their conjecture (however educated it is) anything other then conjecture and neither does it mean that they are any less required to provide evidence to support their claims.
Am I mistaken?

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by PaulK, posted 01-30-2012 7:54 AM Evlreala has replied
 Message 4 by Larni, posted 01-30-2012 7:55 AM Evlreala has replied
 Message 5 by Jon, posted 01-30-2012 8:18 AM Evlreala has seen this message but not replied
 Message 6 by Warthog, posted 01-30-2012 9:16 AM Evlreala has seen this message but not replied
 Message 7 by Larni, posted 01-30-2012 9:59 AM Evlreala has seen this message but not replied
 Message 8 by jar, posted 01-30-2012 10:05 AM Evlreala has seen this message but not replied
 Message 9 by Dr Jack, posted 01-30-2012 2:57 PM Evlreala has seen this message but not replied
 Message 10 by Straggler, posted 01-30-2012 3:01 PM Evlreala has seen this message but not replied
 Message 19 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-31-2012 7:10 PM Evlreala has seen this message but not replied

  
Evlreala
Member (Idle past 3105 days)
Posts: 88
From: Portland, OR United States of America
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 18 of 25 (650545)
01-31-2012 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by PaulK
01-30-2012 7:54 AM


Thank you for your responce, my work schedule is rather hectic at the moment so I apologise it took so long to get back.
PaulK writes:
We had a (rather confused) discussion of this not so long ago.
Essentially, while an argument from authority is not logically valid, it can be a reasonable argument, so long as a genuine authority reflecting mainstream views in the appropriate field is cited.
I'm sorry, this is slightly confusing for me, how can an argument be logically invalid and still be reasonable?
Could you explain what a "genuine authority" is in context to what you mean? (More to the point, how does one determine what qualifies another to be a "genuine authority"?)
PaulK writes:
Non-mainstream views with significant support among relevant experts may be cited as possibilities, but it would be going too far to expect others to accept them on that basis.
Why?
The way I understand it, advancements in science are accepted based on the merit of the ideas in conjunction with the validity of the methods used to test the idea.
Why should it matter if the idea is popular or not?
PaulK writes:
Crank views, even from those with relevant qualifications, can't be reasonably supported by authority at all.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "mainstream".
PaulK writes:
The main reason is practical - we can't know as much as the experts and may not be able to investigate a claim in sufficient depth. In that case, the consensus opinion of the experts may be as good as we can get.
Forgive me, but I find this reasoning highly questionable.
1) "we can't know as much as the experts..."
I disagree. If what seperates the leyfolk from the experts is a matter of formal education vs. informal education (or simplly an incomplete formal education), what you are in saying is that it is impossible to obtain higher knowlege in a given field outside of a formal setting.
2)"...and may not be able to investigate a claim in sufficient depth."
Yet it could also be said that we may be able to investigate a claim in sufficient depth. Wouldn't that entirely depend on a case by case basis? If an experament was performed, wouldn't the basis of determining if the results hold merrit be decided based on the observations made, methodology used, repeatability of the experament, understanding of the observations made, and the "peer review" process?
3) "In that case, the consensus opinion of the experts may be as good as we can get."
Thats presuming a lot...
Once again, thank you for responding. I don't know when I'll find time to respond more, but I appreciate it none the less!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by PaulK, posted 01-30-2012 7:54 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-31-2012 7:22 PM Evlreala has seen this message but not replied
 Message 22 by PaulK, posted 02-01-2012 1:51 AM Evlreala has seen this message but not replied

  
Evlreala
Member (Idle past 3105 days)
Posts: 88
From: Portland, OR United States of America
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 21 of 25 (650548)
01-31-2012 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Larni
01-30-2012 7:55 AM


Re: Evidence not authority
Larni writes:
So as long as the scientists derives their conclusions from the evidence and can justify their conclusion in a transparent way, the research should speak for itself.
Not the authority of the researcher.
Thank you, Larni.
This is an apt description of my current view on the matter, I appreciate the response.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Larni, posted 01-30-2012 7:55 AM Larni has not replied

  
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