Why Creationism

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Adam and Eve became mortal and died.

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Then why did God also want to keep them away from the fruit of the tree of life? Wasn't the risk that they would "take also of the tree of life and eat, and live for ever"?How could it make them live for ever if they would have already done that anyway?

Genesis 3:22, King James Version.

Whoops, double post.[This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 11-17-2003]

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The Tree of Life could have been a 'fountain of youth', preventing ageing while they were in paradise.

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It doesn't say anything about preventing aging. But it does say it prevents death. (i.e., allows them to live forever.)They were forbidden to eat from the tree of life. Why would that be a concern if they already weren't going to die?This leads to another big question about the bible in general... if immortality is the only thing that keeps us from being like God, then why aren't we able to disagree with his rules of morality and sin? According to his own words, we are like him as far as knowledge of good and evil goes.

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We have no idea what it did. Whether prevent ageing, actually reversing ageing or preveinting dying. A Tree of life that would allow ageing and prevent dying seems futile.

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"Live for ever."Pretty straightforward. Anything else is supposition.

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They were forceably forbidden eating from the 'Tree of Life' only after they ate from the tree of Knowlege. They could well have eaten from the tree of life whilst in paradise. It could be what kept them immortal.

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So... what, it would require continuous eating of the fruit of life to remain immortal? Or they only had to eat it once, but it only worked inside the garden? That doesn't make much sense, does it? Why wouldn't it be a one-shot, now you got it and it ain't goin' away, kinda deal like the fruit of knowledge?This is requiring an awful lot of supposition in addition to the text, just for it to make linear sense.

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Again you need to quote text Dan.

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It's in your quote:

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And the LORD God said: 'Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil

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We know good and evil just like God. This is from God's own lips. So why can't we make our own decisions as to what's good and what's evil?

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So.. live for ever AND age or live for ever without ageing ?

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Does it matter? Either way, there was a clear risk that God wanted to avoid... Adam and Eve not dying. If they were already not going to die, then why would God have to prevent them from not dying?

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Shall we go with continuously eating it ? Or would you like to know if the tree of life only provides life to mortals and not immortals ?

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It doesn't say anything about providing life. It only says it causes the person who eats it to live for ever.Why do you keep making suppositions in addition to what's in the text?If it's fair game to make suppositions, does that mean that I can suppose that after the bible's all wrapped up, God adds "HA HA HA HA! SUCKERS!" without telling us?

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What if Adam and Eve again ate from the Tree of Knowlege. Would it have another effect on them ? Adam and Eve must have died in a way for the tree of life to 'give them life' no ?

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See above. The fruit, as it is stated in the text, says it would allow them to live for ever. It doesn't say a thing about giving life where there is none.So what's the risk if they already weren't going to die?

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You can indeed convince yourself that something is not evil and after a while, you might even believe that. But you're deceiving only yourself.

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I don't see why I would be deceiving myself. According to God, my knowledge of good and evil is the same as his. So what prevents my decisions on the subject from being as valid as his?

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God was only concerned about Adam and Eve not dying AFTER they ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowlege and were to be expelled from the garden of Eden !

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So what? There's no indication in the text that they were immortal before they ate it.

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Sin.

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Care to elaborate? Because as it stands, it's circular logic. What prevents my definition of sin as being valid is a different definition of sin?

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Is evolution any different?

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1) Yep. Read up a little. The theory of evolution makes plenty of linear sense all on its own.2) Feel free to find all the errors you want in Origin of the Species. In fact, I encourage it. Always good to route out errors.

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We can tell good from evil like God but we cant always choose right like God can.

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Why not? We have the same knowledge of good and evil that he does. How can one entity have a leg up in decision-making over another when the two are drawing on the same level of knowledge?

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And besides we cant make our own choices as to what's good or bad in our opinion because we are not ours. God says that we are his property since he created us and this world no matter if you believe in him or not. One day when you die youll have to stand before his throne and give God an explanation to why you lived your life they way you did. We all will have to do that one day

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So... basically, God's the toughest, and might makes right?What a sick idea.

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They were immortal.

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Quote the verse.

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Your judgements are affected by sin, God's are not.

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Still circular logic. What's at issue is the definition of sin.

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The things God has done in my life is the prooof of his existence to me. Faith comes in when you have something you want very badly and it seems imposible to have it. God says in his word ask me and believe with your whole heart it can be done without any doubt in your heart and it shall be done.

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God is some sort of holy concierge?Hm... this idea intrigues me. Let's say I really, really want to have a threesome with Angelina Jolie and the girl who plays Chloe on Smallville, but it seems impossible to have it...

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When we make desicions we dont always know the imidiate consequences of them but god knows the imidiate consequence of every desicion and thats why I listen to his advice or read it through the bible.

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Well hang on then... is Genesis correct or incorrect when it says our knowledge of good and evil is like God's? (In other words, does he have greater knowledge of good and evil than us, making Genesis wrong, or does he have the same knowledge as us, making Genesis right?)

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god is definetly the toughest but the thing here is that he created us and we simply obey him because in the end it will be good for us.

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Who's to say it's good for us? Someone whose knowledge of good and evil is the same as our own?Please, people... no more circular logic. It's killing me. Not physical death, true, but each time I die a little inside.

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Believing in the survival of the fittest is even sicker.

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Yeah, I'm with ya, man. The idea that the organism which is best adapted to its environment will have the easiest time coping with that environment is straight from the anus of satan himself.It's definitely worse than the idea that one peron can rule everything and everyone in the universe, not because of greater wisdom, but just because he says so.[This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 11-19-2003]

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At the same time that Darwin was claiming that creatures could change into other creatures

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Connotes a nasty misunderstanding right off the bat.I'll let someone else handle the many errors in this article. I would be interested to hear what Lane Lester's high qualifications are, though.

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He concedes only does petitions which are worthy and not vain.

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It's not vanity. I'd want them to enjoy it too.

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He will not give us something that will make us sin also.

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Which brings us back to the still-unresolved question as to why he gets to define sin.

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If he did i wouldve already given angelina a ride on my boat if you know what i mean

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I do indeed, my good man. *manly grunting moment*

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We have the same knowledge of right and wrong as god does without the shadow of the doubt but the difference is that we cant look past the moment were living and god already knows the last day of this earth. what i mean is that god knows if the desicion you make today will come bak to haunt you even if it seems as the right one at the moment. Do you now see the differnce?

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Then how can a wrong action taken under such circumstances even be called sin?If I do something that, in the moment, seems like the good thing to do, and later, due to knowledge I could not have had access to, turns out to have been a bad choice, where's the evil?Sin is a catch-22. Either our knowledge is equal to God's, making God's definition of sin up for debate, or our knowledge is insufficient to choose right or wrong. If God wants us to have free will, why doesn't he give us all the knowledge we need, so we can make informed decisions?If he doesn't want us to have all the facts, then why let us choose at all? It would be like giving an autistic child a handgun and saying, "now be good, that's not a toy."In such circumstances, who would you blame if the gun went off? The autistic child who doesn't know any better, or the idiot who gave the autistic child a gun?

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He is of greater wisdom and thats why he gives advice to us. he doesnt make you. will god appear to you and force you to serve him just because he said so? no.

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True. But if heaven and hell are real, then there is at the very least a system of reward and punishment in place, if not outright coersion by force.