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Member (Idle past 3664 days) Posts: 40 From: Simi Valley, CA USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Why Creationism | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
quote: Then why did God also want to keep them away from the fruit of the tree of life? Wasn't the risk that they would "take also of the tree of life and eat, and live for ever"? How could it make them live for ever if they would have already done that anyway?
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
Genesis 3:22, King James Version.
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
Whoops, double post.
[This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 11-17-2003]
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
quote: It doesn't say anything about preventing aging. But it does say it prevents death. (i.e., allows them to live forever.) They were forbidden to eat from the tree of life. Why would that be a concern if they already weren't going to die? This leads to another big question about the bible in general... if immortality is the only thing that keeps us from being like God, then why aren't we able to disagree with his rules of morality and sin? According to his own words, we are like him as far as knowledge of good and evil goes.
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
quote: "Live for ever." Pretty straightforward. Anything else is supposition.
quote: So... what, it would require continuous eating of the fruit of life to remain immortal? Or they only had to eat it once, but it only worked inside the garden? That doesn't make much sense, does it? Why wouldn't it be a one-shot, now you got it and it ain't goin' away, kinda deal like the fruit of knowledge? This is requiring an awful lot of supposition in addition to the text, just for it to make linear sense.
quote: It's in your quote:
quote: We know good and evil just like God. This is from God's own lips. So why can't we make our own decisions as to what's good and what's evil?
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
quote: Does it matter? Either way, there was a clear risk that God wanted to avoid... Adam and Eve not dying. If they were already not going to die, then why would God have to prevent them from not dying?
quote: It doesn't say anything about providing life. It only says it causes the person who eats it to live for ever. Why do you keep making suppositions in addition to what's in the text? If it's fair game to make suppositions, does that mean that I can suppose that after the bible's all wrapped up, God adds "HA HA HA HA! SUCKERS!" without telling us?
quote: See above. The fruit, as it is stated in the text, says it would allow them to live for ever. It doesn't say a thing about giving life where there is none. So what's the risk if they already weren't going to die?
quote: I don't see why I would be deceiving myself. According to God, my knowledge of good and evil is the same as his. So what prevents my decisions on the subject from being as valid as his?
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
quote: So what? There's no indication in the text that they were immortal before they ate it.
quote: Care to elaborate? Because as it stands, it's circular logic. What prevents my definition of sin as being valid is a different definition of sin?
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
quote: 1) Yep. Read up a little. The theory of evolution makes plenty of linear sense all on its own. 2) Feel free to find all the errors you want in Origin of the Species. In fact, I encourage it. Always good to route out errors.
quote: Why not? We have the same knowledge of good and evil that he does. How can one entity have a leg up in decision-making over another when the two are drawing on the same level of knowledge?
quote: So... basically, God's the toughest, and might makes right? What a sick idea.
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
quote: Quote the verse.
quote: Still circular logic. What's at issue is the definition of sin.
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
quote: God is some sort of holy concierge? Hm... this idea intrigues me. Let's say I really, really want to have a threesome with Angelina Jolie and the girl who plays Chloe on Smallville, but it seems impossible to have it...
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
quote: Well hang on then... is Genesis correct or incorrect when it says our knowledge of good and evil is like God's? (In other words, does he have greater knowledge of good and evil than us, making Genesis wrong, or does he have the same knowledge as us, making Genesis right?)
quote: Who's to say it's good for us? Someone whose knowledge of good and evil is the same as our own? Please, people... no more circular logic. It's killing me. Not physical death, true, but each time I die a little inside.
quote: Yeah, I'm with ya, man. The idea that the organism which is best adapted to its environment will have the easiest time coping with that environment is straight from the anus of satan himself. It's definitely worse than the idea that one peron can rule everything and everyone in the universe, not because of greater wisdom, but just because he says so. [This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 11-19-2003]
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
quote: Connotes a nasty misunderstanding right off the bat. I'll let someone else handle the many errors in this article. I would be interested to hear what Lane Lester's high qualifications are, though.
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
quote: It's not vanity. I'd want them to enjoy it too.
quote: Which brings us back to the still-unresolved question as to why he gets to define sin.
quote: I do indeed, my good man. *manly grunting moment*
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
quote: Then how can a wrong action taken under such circumstances even be called sin? If I do something that, in the moment, seems like the good thing to do, and later, due to knowledge I could not have had access to, turns out to have been a bad choice, where's the evil? Sin is a catch-22. Either our knowledge is equal to God's, making God's definition of sin up for debate, or our knowledge is insufficient to choose right or wrong. If God wants us to have free will, why doesn't he give us all the knowledge we need, so we can make informed decisions? If he doesn't want us to have all the facts, then why let us choose at all? It would be like giving an autistic child a handgun and saying, "now be good, that's not a toy." In such circumstances, who would you blame if the gun went off? The autistic child who doesn't know any better, or the idiot who gave the autistic child a gun?
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
quote: True. But if heaven and hell are real, then there is at the very least a system of reward and punishment in place, if not outright coersion by force.
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