Who has the best avatar?

I thought he meant "gay" as in the sense of being happy, or well-festooned. In the context of an armored knight that seemed to be the more reasonable interpretation than anything having to do with sexual preference.

Funny, I know at least 6 women who do archery and swordplay in full-body steel armor (yes, helmets too) and none of them are gay. Two of them are married. (Yes, to men.) The lesbians I know are the least likely to be inclined to play knight. Word reclaimation is a load of horse shit. That's why black people can say the n-word but other people can't.And to reply to Rrhain... Yeah. It's for the dodge bonus to AC, isn't it? [This message has been edited by crashfrog, 12-01-2003]

She's a knight, right? Like people would say "a chivalrous, gay knight" or "life was bonnie and gay." Not that she in particular is bonnie and gay, but that fantasy knights in general are.What makes that picture an example of a lesbian? Since Sir Walter Scott wrote Ivanhoe. Don't you read books? This is a funny question for somebody who obviously knows role-playing games to ask.[This message has been edited by crashfrog, 12-01-2003]

No, I'm serious. I assumed Brian's use of the word "gay" had more to do with a sense of ornamentalism and Romanticism indicated by the spirit of the picture (as the woman's armor is clearly ornamental in nature) than it had to do with the woman's presumed sexual orientation, which Brian could not possibly know.What's hard to believe about that? What I find hard to believe is that you of all people have offered nothing but your own rudely-phrased incredulity to suggest why my interpretation is in error.Again, why do you think Brian was referring to sexual orientation in his use of the word "gay"?

Why? The armor's clearly ornamental. (Or at least, is crafted in an ornamental style.) For that matter wearing armor doesn'tmake you gay, no matter how ugly the armor is. My wife played ice hockey for years. She's hardly gay.I don't see how you're getting this "armor = gay" equasion.

I hate to break it to you, but that is in fact an offensive use. When you call something or someone "gay" in a context that has nothing to do with their sexual identity - and I don't understand how you would draw inferences of sexual behavior from a headshot - then the use of the word "gay" is taken as an insult.I'm sorry if you didn't know that, but it's generally true. It's offensive to call people "gay" in situations unrelated to sexual orientation. For instance: Well, would you be insulted, or feel it was an off-color remark, if I said "Jesus, Brian, don't be so gay." Or "what a gay avatar." Yes, there's nothing wrong with being gay. That's what makes it so insulting when the word "gay" is used to imply that something is bad. Maybe you didn't mean it, but if you did say "gay knight" and you meant "homosexual knight", you used an insulting phrase.[This message has been edited by crashfrog, 12-02-2003]

Sure it is. Yeah, it's not a mail bikini, but it's rather ornate and decorated. Are you kidding? She's an elf! if anything she's pretty femme. Even short hair wouldn't make her butch. She looks way more like Anne Heche than Ellen DeGeneres. Femme, totally.Honestly I just don't see how you can look at that picture and see a mannish woman. I see a feminine warrior in feminine armor. Maybe you don't play enough fantasy games...

Of course. Why would wearing armor affect your charisma score?If you put Nicole Kidman in goalie's gear, she doesn't get butch. If you put Tyne Daly in a sundress, she's still butch. Butchness isn't what you're wearing. It's what you look like. Duh. No. Are you going to describe all female athletes as being butch? That's kind of what it comes down to. Where I'm from, women can put on armor, bend a bow, and wield a sword, and there's nothing especially butch about it. Not where I'm from. Maybe the ladies are a little tougher here in Minnesota. Why, nipples on the armor and such? Maybe I'm not a person that makes sweeping generalizations about people's sexuality based on what they're wearing? Just a thought.

In so much as it can be used to denigrate a woman who doesn't meet society's standards for femininity, yes, it is. I realize that in the GLBT community it's a slang term for lesbians who act "mannish", if you will. I know a few lesbians, but they're not exactly into the whole gay scene. None of them use "butch" and "femme" like you're using. You're either butch, or you're femme. What you're wearing doesn't make a difference. You are aware that there's an international community of mediveal/fantasy reenactors, right? That they don armor, shoot arrows, and swordfight as a matter of course, right? To you, I guess. I don't personally equate "femininity" with "weakness", not even in stereotype. Surely womanhood isn't that simplistic to you? This tuxedo? Or this one? Like I said, in Minnesota, women are assertive, especially to service personel. No, that's always been the point of the debate. Is a woman who wears armor most likely gay? Not on Planet Earth, or any other. Maybe in your world, though. And I still am. But you're trying to imply that only a gay man would wear ornate clothing, or that only a lesbian would wear armor. That's not a position I can agree with.Here's a woman in armor:

Now why don't you call her butch to her face? Don't be surprised if you sprout feathers, though.

Yours and M-W's, maybe. My argument is consistent with the meaning of the word as it is used around me. Well, that's 180 degrees from my experience. My wife's friend is a femme lesbian. Not in a million years would anybody call her "butch", not even in camo pants and a bandolier. Oh, I see. You believe that the woman in the picture is American? Ah, so armor doesn't automatically make you mannish, then? Proves my point. The elf archer is as feminine as that girl in the leather. It's mind-boggling to me that you can't see it, and that you precieve that difference as implying lesbianism on the part of the elf. What is this, argument from imaginary evidence? Sure. In my experience, which includes meeting many women in a variety of armors - some sexy ren-fest type armor, some functional metal plate, some in modern hockey armor - women who wear that armor are never gay.What's your experience with women in armor? Why would they be? Well, we're back to where we started, then. Let me ask you again - what is your experience with women fighters that leads you to believe that the majority of them are homosexual?

Now I'm confused. I never claimed the knight was "gay", in any sense of the word. I merely said that "festive knight" was a reasonable interpretation of the phrase "gay knight". Now you think I didn't mean that at all? I don't understand. Ah, but in the context of chivalrous, festooned knights, I use "gay" to mean "festive" 100% of the time.I'm curious why you were puzzled by what I meant by "gay" given that I told you exactly what I thought he meant by it. Can you explain your reasoning here? What does my word use in other threads have to do with the possibility that Brian didn't mean gay in the sense that you thought it did? Well, unless they're talking like they're over 50, on purpose. Surely you believe that a person can adopt an unusual or archaic mode of speech? Especially if they're talking about something archaic, like knights who shoot bows? Well, obviously, he gets to decide what he meant. Nonetheless "gay knight" could as likely mean "laughing, chivalrous knight" as "homosexual knight" in a context of archaic modes of speech.[This message has been edited by crashfrog, 12-02-2003]