|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Hello everyone | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
scienceishonesty writes:
This is the first time I've heard the No True Scotsman fallcy applied to religion. It just seems bizarre that you would claim that anything is not a "true" religion. If there's wiggle room, it isn't religion, it's just a pet idea. As others have mentioned, you don't seem to have changed your creationist thought patterns. You've just switched sides. It's like committing the same old war crimes but now you're doing it for the "good guys".
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
scienceishonesty writes:
And that's the No True Scotsman fallcy - i.e. No True Religion allows any leeway from 100% correctness.
If it is not believed by the person to be 100% correct, it just isn't a religion anymore.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
scienceishonesty writes:
So now the goalposts are moving. First it was No True Religion allows any leeway in its core tenets and now it's No True Christian questions the existence of God and/or Jesus. It's still the same fallacy. For example, for a Christian, there may be a thousand different strands and differing degrees of devotion and minor theological flexibilities, but there's no leeway in terms of whether or not there is a God and Jesus figure. If there isn't, then they are no longer a Christian. The bottom line is that you don't get to decide who is a True Christian and you don't get to decide what is a True Religion.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
scienceishonesty writes:
That's where you're wrong. A religion is any relatively systematic belief system. The concept of "absolute truth" is superimposed by you.
Every religion has its core belief idea that is assumed to be the truth no matter what. scienceishonesty writes: So answer me, is someone a Christian if they don't believe in a Christ or God figure? Someone is a Christian if he is a member of a group of Christians, the same as he is a Smith if he is a member of a group of Smiths. If the Christians or Smiths adopt him as a member, he is one of them. They may or may not require their members to hold (profess) certain beliefs but you don't get to proclaim that they must have an inviolable set of core beliefs. I personally make a distinction between large-C Christians who are members of a Christian church and small-c christians who are followers of Christ's (supposed) teachings. You can be a christian without believing that Christ even existed.
scienceishonesty writes:
That's different. Theism is not a religion.
Is someone a theist if they don't believe in a god?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Catholic Scientist writes:
And arrogant.
If you have absolutely no wiggle room then you are just lying to yourself.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Faith writes:
Only Faith understands how the Vatican works, just like only Faith understands how science works.
You don't understand how the Vatican works....
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
How do you verify what's in those books?
I've been learning a lot about the Vatican that the average Catholic doesn't know because it's kept from them and the material has to be dug up from very old books.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Fundies really love that mantra, don't they? Of course, having to fend for yourself and take responsibility for your actions is much more convenient than having a Sky Daddy to do it for you and give you a Get Out of Hell Free card.
... you fear believing anything inconvenient to your lifestyle and world view.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Faith writes:
So how come your verification is so different from everybody else's?
You assess the attitude of the writer, you assess the totality of different witnesses against each other, you assess the information against other information you have, you assess what others say about the writer, you assess the source of the approval or the criticism, you assess the logic of the thinking, you check the bibliography for other sources and if possible check them out, you take notes on what still needs verification. The more you read the more you can make such assessments.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Faith writes:
I'm just saying that not everybody who has read those books has the same insane hatred of Catholicism that you have. Since you seem to be using the same methods of scholarship as everybody else, your insane hatred must come from somewhere else.
We're talking about certain old books aren't we? Who else has read them that you are talking about? How do you know their verification is different from mine? I could certainly find plenty of people who share my verification.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Faith writes:
And here was me thinking you'd deny the hatred.
Oh an honest reading of the books I'm talking about could only lead one to have a hatred of Catholicism as the lying murderous antichristian religiopolitical system it is.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Faith writes:
No, I don't think I "hate" them in the same venom-spitting way that you hate Catholicism.
You hate Nazism don't you? (I hope). Stalinism? Maoism? Faith writes:
Hate usually comes from misunderstanding.
If you understood it you would also hate Catholicism.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Amazing, you don't hate the murdering isms of this world. How very strange.quote:God bless Stalin and Faith.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Faith writes:
You're the one who's quoting out of context. Jesus said we have to count the cost of anything we do before we start. If we take up our cross to follow Him we take the risk of losing our family, of having them turn against us. It's more a question of being hated than of us actively hating.
However, Jesus did teach us to hate even our own families if they draw us away from the Truth, so your quote is a tad out of context.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Faith writes:
He was saying we may have to choose between our families and Him - and note that choosing Him means loving our neighbours. He wasn't talking about the kind of fire-breathing hatred that you demonstrate.
Jesus was saying that we have to choose between him and our families and all other loved persons and things, and that means hating those we all too easily love more than him.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024