|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 13/65 Hour: 0/1 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Evidence For Belief | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It's the only evidence we have.
We don't have enough information to determine chemicals to be the initial uncaused cause. Phat writes:
If there is evidence, there's no excuse for belief.
One point that I have brought up before, however, is that evidence removes the belief from the equation entirely. Phat writes:
Worst copout ever. Some argue that God, if God exists (and is the Christian version) wants people to have trust and belief in Him as a precondition to salvation. Leprechauns hide because they want you to have faith in them. The Loch Ness monster hides because she wants you to have faith in her. Bigfoot hides because he wants you to have faith in him. Martians hide because they want you to have faith in them. Phlogiston hides because it wants you to have faith in it. The earth pretends to be round because it wants you to believe it's flat.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
There's nothing wrong with speculation that's based on reality - but how can you invent something useful with no basis in reality? Some of the greatest inventions and discoveries originated with speculation.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You make the mistake that Faith constantly makes. Creativity is evidence of A creator - one of many - not THE Creator. In the case of humour, the creators are us. Creativity is evidence of a Creator.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Are the twelve patients who think they're Napoleon really Napoleon?
Does subjective experience count as reality? Phat writes:
It can be considered as evidence but no definite conclusions should be drawn from it.
Does an eyewitness account count as evidence for reality? Phat writes:
We're confining reality to reality. Otherwise, we wouldn't have bothered to make up words for fantasy, fiction, etc. Or are we confining reality to the behavior of chemicals which we have known about and which evidently existed forever? And those chemicals didn't exist "forever", only since some time after the Big Bang.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Why not? It's a brain function and brain functions are electrochemical.
Does creative intelligence simply evolve out of chemicals? Phat writes:
Yes, going back to Miller-Urey.
Do we have evidence that life and creativity can be reproduced in a lab? Phat writes:
No sillier than it is to speculate that a hobbit could protect a magic ring from orcs and wizards. No more sensible either. Is it so silly to speculate that in order for us to be creators suggests that there is likely "THE Creator"?And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Arachnopuppy writes:
That's why I said, "going back to," Miller-Urey. Anybody who contends that life and non-life are fundamentally different is responsible for refuting ALL of the evidence since Miller-Urey. I tend to get nervous when someone brings up the miller urey experiment. It only demonstrated that under certain conditions, organic chemistry occurs. There is a huge leap between that and a cell.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
ICANT is as close to "the devil" as you're likely to get. Remember that "the devil" is the one who tells you what you want to hear, not what you need to hear. Pastor ICANT gets my respect not for his observations about science...but for this statement which he made that sums up how I feel as well:quote: And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
That isn't true. A century or so ago, authors of fiction went to great length to suggest that their stories were true. They found the manuscript in a bottle or they were told the story by somebody they met in a bar. Fiction is quite differnt than allegory or delusion.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So was The Lord of the Rings. The Bible was written to chronicle a very important truth in the lives of the people of that day and time.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
AZPaul3 writes:
It seemed fairly straightforward to me. How does the Bible differ from The Lord of the Rings? Phat writes:
The Bible was written to chronicle a very important truth in the lives of the people of that day and time.ringo writes:
Ok, it's one of those moments for me, ringo. I missed something. Would you elaborate on that, please? So was The Lord of the Rings.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Phat writes:
Were they? Was the author of Job at the board meeting where God and Satan agreed to torment Job? Was the author of Genesis in the Garden of Eden?
In contrast, the writers of the Bible were recording events that actually happened around them and the reactions of others who encountered these same events. Phat writes:
It was made up on 66 or more spots.
The Bible was not simply made up on the spot. Phat writes:
There is no evidence that they weren't. There is no evidence that the authors of the Bible were intentionally writing fiction. And since it IS fiction *cough* talking snake *cough* they were either intentionally writing fiction or they were intentionally lying or they were just plain wrong or....
Phat writes:
Nope. And it is most definitely the case with Jesus Christ.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Actually, that's my point. If your God has no basis in reality - i.e. no evidence that he's doing something in the world, what good is he?
ringo writes:
Thats my point. There's nothing wrong with speculation that's based on reality - but how can you invent something useful with no basis in reality? Phat writes:
Apologists made up the God you believe in. You cant nor did not invent the God i am discussing. At worst, you can claim that I invented Him, but perhaps you would need some evidence."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Of course. People born into Christian cultures tend to be Christians, people who are born into Muslim cultures tend to be Muslims. If you had been born anywhere else in the world, do you think your beliefs would still be so American?
Do you have any evidence that it was an accident? Phat writes:
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by putting your foolish beliefs on the same plane as other more sensible beliefs. They are equal in the sense that they equally lack evidence. They are not all equally sensible or palatable.
Do you have any reason to assert that all beliefs are equally valid? Phat writes:
You tell me. Is it possible that Zeus is closest to reality? Might it not just be possible that some of us have the belief that is closest to reality..."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's a poor analogy. There are thousands of insurance companies and your belief is that only one of them pays out.
Belief is like a good insurance policy. Phat writes:
Of course. It was intended to be silly. It's a parody of your belief in a hiding god.
This is just silly talk. Phat writes:
If there's any reasoning involved, why don't you present it instead of just parroting the apologists?
You can argue, as does jar, that humans create the gods they want. Thats a valid point. I disagree with it based on my own reasoning and my subjective experience. Phat writes:
Polly want a cracker?
It seems clear to me also that GOD, if GOD exists and if GOD chose to relate to humans through Jesus, that He wont provide us with Objective proof (evidence for everyone) because it would essentially make us acknowledge Him and He wants that to be our decision and not our sane duty. Phat writes:
As far as I know, we have no definitive evidence for ANY "uncaused cause". That's not an excuse for you to make one up.
Do we have any evidence that an uncaused first cause lit the fuse for this Bang you talk about? Phat writes:
How would you go about measuring wisdom?
Is Stephen Hawking as wise as the Prophet Isaiah? Phat writes:
You're looking at a computer right now that Stephen Hawking understood and Isaiah didn't. On what evidence do you base your reply?"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Your cult is.
First of all, Christianity is not "American". Phat writes:
And there are Muslims in every culture. The point is that most people acquire their religion accidentally by being born into it.
Second of all, there are Christians in every culture, even in Islamic Nations. Phat writes:
Read my posts. I have pointed out many times how nonsensical your beliefs are. For just one example, the idea that God sent his "son" (himself) so that we could kill him and only then could he forgive us.
I await your evidence that there are more sensible beliefs than Christianity. Phat writes:
Will you ever learn? There is no such thing as subjective evidence.
ringo writes: Objectively but not subjectively. They are equal in the sense that they equally lack evidence. Phat writes:
But is it possible that he is closest to reality? That's what you asked me about your god. ... I am personally unimpressed with Zeus."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024