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Author Topic:   Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 466 of 1429 (896127)
08-01-2022 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 460 by Dredge
07-31-2022 4:25 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Dredge writes:
ringo writes:
Facts aren't much good without an explanation.
Hilarious.
Explain the joke. Why are you the only one laughing?

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 460 by Dredge, posted 07-31-2022 4:25 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 467 of 1429 (896128)
08-01-2022 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 459 by Dredge
07-31-2022 4:06 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Dredge writes:
You don't know that whales evolved according to ToE.
YOU don't know what knowledge means.
You made a huge strategic error when you admitted how stupid you are. Now nothing you say can be taken seriously.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 459 by Dredge, posted 07-31-2022 4:06 PM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 475 by dwise1, posted 08-01-2022 1:00 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 468 of 1429 (896129)
08-01-2022 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 458 by Dredge
07-31-2022 4:03 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Dredge writes:
It's a demonstrable fact that millions of folks believe that ToE is a fact - you're one of them.
Then why can't you demonstrate it? Give us millions of examples.
It IS a lie. And you have demonstrated that you're too stupid to tell a lie from the truth.
Dredge writes:
You don't know how even one evolutionary transition evident in the fossil record happened!
You don't understand what knowledge is, so you're in no position to make that claim.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 458 by Dredge, posted 07-31-2022 4:03 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 469 of 1429 (896130)
08-01-2022 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 457 by Dredge
07-31-2022 3:55 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Dredge writes:
All you can know from fossils is that "evolution" happened. The fossils don't let you know HOW "evolution" happened.
By your misunderstanding of knowledge, it would be impossible to know anything. Just because YOU know nothing, you idiot, it doesn't mean that nobody knows anything.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 457 by Dredge, posted 07-31-2022 3:55 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 470 of 1429 (896131)
08-01-2022 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 454 by Dredge
07-31-2022 12:51 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
... it's pretty safe to assume that someone with an IQ of 9 is already stupid.
And yet you presume to tell other people what they know.
Dredge writes:
... you don't want to talk about proof because you know full well that you can't prove that ToE describes the process that shaped the history of life on earth.
We don't want to talk about proof because science doesn't deal in proof. Science doesn't prove anything, not evolution, not gravity, not the shape of the earth.
YOU, on the other hand, want to talk about proof because you're too stupid to unerstand the first thing about science.
Dredge writes:
Your mind doesn't want to venture outside it's safe and warm little bubble of Darwinist belief.
What the hell would you know about minds?

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 454 by Dredge, posted 07-31-2022 12:51 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 471 of 1429 (896132)
08-01-2022 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 453 by Dredge
07-31-2022 12:44 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
I was referring to Bechly's argument, not mine.
And your argument is even worse than Bechly's.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 453 by Dredge, posted 07-31-2022 12:44 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 472 of 1429 (896133)
08-01-2022 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 452 by Dredge
07-31-2022 12:40 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Dredge writes:
I said I have an IQ of 9 and that therefore I qualify as an idiot ... an idiot is not "mindless".
For practical purposes, you are mindless. You have demonstrated repeatedly that you are incapable of using the few IQ poits that you do have.
Dredge writes:
... sometimes even an idiot gets it right.
Give examples.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 452 by Dredge, posted 07-31-2022 12:40 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4451
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 473 of 1429 (896134)
08-01-2022 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 423 by Dredge
07-30-2022 3:40 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dr. Bechly doesn't deny that evolution has happened ... he argues that ToE can't account for what is observed.
Does he really?
Which specific observations does he dispute?
How would he correct the Theory of Evolution to more accurately describe reality?
Does he provide any supporting evidence?
Citations would be nice

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by Dredge, posted 07-30-2022 3:40 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 474 of 1429 (896135)
08-01-2022 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 450 by Dredge
07-31-2022 12:28 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
... if science can't prove that ToE describes the process responsible for producing the fossil record, then science can't claim to know how evolution works.
You're confusing knowledge with proof. Wrong again.
You should just stop using the words "proof" and "know", since you have no idea what you're talking about.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 450 by Dredge, posted 07-31-2022 12:28 PM Dredge has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5952
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 475 of 1429 (896139)
08-01-2022 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 467 by ringo
08-01-2022 10:13 AM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Dedged Sludge writes:
You don't know that whales evolved according to ToE.
YOU don't know what knowledge means.​
More importantly, does he even know what the Theory of Evolution (ToE) is?
He keeps harping about the ToE and how it doesn't explain anything, etc, but how would he know that if he doesn't even know what the ToE is?
In that grave ignorance, he is the same as all the other creationists we encounter: none of them know what evolution is nor how it works. The surest way to drive them off is to ask them what they think evolution is and how they think it is supposed to work. Works better than garlic and crucifixes do on vampires (though in the novel of a vampire epidemic, I am Legend (1954), the protagonist found that crucifixes don't work on Jewish vampires, though a Magen David does).
For example, I notice he has harped on one particular misconception (bolding added for emphasis):
Message 290 --
Sludge writes:
That paper discusses some of the alleged evolutionary steps involved, but doesn't discuss what caused those steps (which is the crux of my argument). The closest it gets is a wild guess about what may have given rise to the development of a double jaw joint.

The paper proposes an evolutionary pathway, not what caused that evolution pathway. In other words, it doesn't demonstrate a knowledge of how evolution works.
Message 422 --
Sludge writes:
Tangle writes:
That's sad for you but science doesn't need what you insist on having to know that the middle ear evolved - we have the fossils to prove it.
I'm not arguing that there is a lack of evidence for evolution - I'm arguing that it's impossible to know what caused it.

The article you linked doesn't explain what caused the evolution of the middle-ear ... because no one knows.
It looks like he thinks that there's some mysterious unknown force that causes and probably also directs those changes. If that is what he is thinking (to use the term loosely in his case), then he truly is a willfully ignorant and willfully stupid idiot! That is not how evolution works, not even close! As we all know.
Trying to answer Sludge's demands to his satisfaction, which requires us to show him that mysterious external force, would be like proving evolution to candle2 by showing him a dog giving birth to kittens. Or explaining how a thermos bottle (which keeps hot things hot and cold things cold) can know which you want it to do. Impossible for us to do because that is not how any of it works.
 
I would suggest that we demand that Sludge tell us what he thinks the Theory of Evolution is and to explain to us how he thinks that it is supposed to work.
We could also point him to UC Berkeley's Evolution 101. Especially the Mechanisms: the processes of evolution section.
Of course, Sludge, being such a typical creationist, would never dare go near it since he must carefully shield and guard his precious false beliefs through ever vigilant willful ignorance and willful stupidity. But those visitors who are willing to learn may benefit by those links.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 467 by ringo, posted 08-01-2022 10:13 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4451
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 476 of 1429 (896150)
08-01-2022 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 462 by AZPaul3
07-31-2022 4:45 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
You cannot dispute the facts presented in Message 424. Indeed we have such knowledge of the evolutionary transitions of millions of critters. Again, you're just too stupid to see it.
It sure would be nice if he ever presented anything at all supporting ID.
All we get is
quote
1. If you don’t know everything you can’t know anything.
2. The atheist Darwinists can’t prove anything.
3. Darwinists believe the ToE is a fact.
4. Repeat
  —Sludge
After all these years that the Discovery Institute had multimillion dollar budgets and they failed to produce a single shred of evidence supporting intelligent design in nature, of the Universe, this galaxy, this solar system, this planet, or any of the life on this planet, other than the tinkering humans have done on the genomes of several thousand species.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 462 by AZPaul3, posted 07-31-2022 4:45 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 477 of 1429 (896154)
08-02-2022 1:29 AM
Reply to: Message 295 by vimesey
07-10-2022 9:10 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
vimesey writes:
Another possibility is that a bunch of increasingly desperate churches and religious institutions are pumping millions into his bank account, having finally found a scientist who is willing to sell out
This hypothesis is as bonkers as that fairy tale about whales evolution. Entertaining though.
Keep up the good work!
"Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the evolution of life on earth has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by vimesey, posted 07-10-2022 9:10 AM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 482 by ringo, posted 08-02-2022 12:03 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 486 by vimesey, posted 08-02-2022 3:42 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 478 of 1429 (896155)
08-02-2022 3:52 AM
Reply to: Message 301 by ringo
07-11-2022 12:19 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
ringo writes:
Knowledge is made up of facts and theories.
No one will ever be able to prove that ToE describes the process that produced the fossil record ... so only an idiot (or a Darwinist) would claim that ToE is "knowledge".

Edited by Dredge, .


This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by ringo, posted 07-11-2022 12:19 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 479 by AZPaul3, posted 08-02-2022 7:28 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 480 by Percy, posted 08-02-2022 8:56 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 481 by ringo, posted 08-02-2022 11:55 AM Dredge has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8564
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 479 of 1429 (896156)
08-02-2022 7:28 AM
Reply to: Message 478 by Dredge
08-02-2022 3:52 AM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
No one will ever be able to prove that ToE describes the process that produced the fossil record
Except we already have. You're just too stupid to see it.
only an idiot (or a Darwinist) would claim that ToE is "knowledge".
Only a Stupid Fucking Catholic would not.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 478 by Dredge, posted 08-02-2022 3:52 AM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 484 by dwise1, posted 08-02-2022 12:33 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 480 of 1429 (896157)
08-02-2022 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 478 by Dredge
08-02-2022 3:52 AM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Dredge writes:
No one will ever be able to prove that ToE describes the process that produced the fossil record ... so only an idiot (or a Darwinist) would claim that ToE is "knowledge".
There's that word again. Science doesn't prove things. In the entire history of science it has proved nothing.
I know playing the idiot is sort of your schtick, but give it a break now and then. Some people are trying to have a serious discussion with you.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 478 by Dredge, posted 08-02-2022 3:52 AM Dredge has not replied

  
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