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Author | Topic: Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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We're arguing with uneducated nutters, there's really no point.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Jxy writes: rare cases of virgin births Evidence please
Unnatural homosexual activity in nature, How can behaviour in nature be unatural?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
I read a few pages, it's garbage, pure ravings.
One thing impressed me though, he might be Japanese, in which case his grammar is explicable if not his thought processes.
quote: Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Feeble? It's incoherent gobbledegook.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
The Boss writes: My goal since the very beginning, and still the goal, is to foster constructive discussion between the two sides. A worthy goal, but one that assumes that both sides are rational.
The site has not achieved this goal, and I've come to think it isn't possible We certainly haven't seen too many many changes of mind, but it does occasionally happen. However, these days we only get the real nutters.
but it has turned a window onto human nature. Sure has.
It has been a clash of worldviews, one seeing the world as the evidence dictates, the other seeing the evidence as what their beliefs dictate. I refer you to my tag line.. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm. Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Dredge writes: In that case, please describe how eukaryotes evolved from prokaryotes. Describe the steps involved and how natural selection and environmental pressures produced each of those steps. Grow up. You've been told that no one knows that and probably never will. The ToE does not depend on us knowing every detail of every species' evolution over all time. Instead we use the massive amount of evidence we DO have from fossils, geology, molecular genetics and observations of modern organisms (amongst other things) to form an overall theory of how all life forms have changed over time. If you want to insert your god between eukaryotes and prokaryotes feel free to make yourself look really stupid.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Dredge writes: So on one hand you claim to you claim to know how evolution works, but on the other hand you admit you don't know how of the any of the macro-evolutionary transitions I mentioned proceeded. Seems to me like your hands have built a contradiction. You're either as stupid as you claim to be or a troll. Either way, c'ya.
quote AbstractIn the past few decades, many new discoveries have provided numerous transitional fossils that show the evolution of hoofed mammals from their primitive ancestors. We can now document the origin of the odd-toed perissodactyls, their early evolution when horses, brontotheres, rhinoceroses, and tapirs can barely be distinguished, and the subsequent evolution and radiation of these groups into distinctive lineages with many different species and interesting evolutionary transformations through time. Similarly, we can document the evolution of the even-toed artiodactyls from their earliest roots and their great radiation into pigs, peccaries, hippos, camels, and ruminants. We can trace the complex family histories in the camels and giraffes, whose earliest ancestors did not have humps or long necks and looked nothing like the modern descendants. Even the Proboscidea and Sirenia show many transitional fossils linking them to ancient ancestors that look nothing like modern elephants or manatees. All these facts show that creationist attacks on the fossil record of horses and other hoofed mammals are completely erroneous and deceptive. Their critiques of the evidence of hoofed mammal evolution are based entirely on reading trade books and quoting them out of context, not on any firsthand knowledge or training in paleontology or looking at the actual fossils. Evolutionary Transitions in the Fossil Record of Terrestrial Hoofed Mammals - Evolution: Education and OutreachJe suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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In France alone:
quote Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Making the best of a terrifically shite thing, the religious period was probably a necessary evolutionary stage to get to the final sapiens bit is H. sapiens sapiens+. To be fair, in evolutionary terms, 5,000 years? That's not even a fart in the bath.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Troll is more accurate. He's not stupid, he's just a twat.
Edited by Tangle, . Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Troll writes: Fail. The link you provided doesn't answer my question. It presents evidence of certain evolution transitions, but doesn't mention one word about HOW nature actually produced any of those transitions. So, before I waste more of my time, have you accepted that those transitions *did* happen?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Troll writes: Irrelevant to my argument. But highly relevant to mine and the ToE. If you don't accept that those transition happened there's little point me explaining how. So do you?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Troll writes: Au contraire, by explaining how, you can demonstrate that you know how evolution works. So by all means, fire away - please describe the process involved in the evolution of a novel body plan or organ. But it's impossible for anyone to describe any such process, bcoz said processes happened millions of years ago and cannot be repeated ... which is why I argue that no one can claim to know how evolution works. I've shown you the evidence that science has for the evolution of hoofed mammals. Having read that (ha!) do you accept that hoofed mammals evolved in that way? If you do, we can move on to the how of evolution.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Troll writes: You keep trying to steer the discussion from knowing HOW evolution happens. I'm don't need a discussion on it I just need you to say whether you accept the evidence that evolution has happened or not. Yes or no is fine. Why so shy? You know no one can describe HOW novel body plans and organs actually evolve, but you can't bring yourself to admit it. Answer my question and we can then get into the how of evolutionary theory.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Just wondering marc, where is your equivalent of the fossil record? Where is your geology, palaeontology, molecular genetics, embryology? Where is your taxonomy and cladistics?
In short, we've shown you ours, you show is yours.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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