"Creation Science" on astrophysics?

[QUOTE][b]I know that you can decrease the speed of light, but I dont' know about its increase. I have also heard that they use a light speed mechenism to measure light, so it would be in measuring constant anyways.[/QUOTE][/b]Yes, as Joe pointed out, you cannot change the value of c, either slowing it or increasing it. You can slow light down by forcing it to pass through something (like glass, which is the basis of refraction)
but you cannot change the speed of light in a vacuum.

[QUOTE][b]Who can say that God did not just make the light in transit (inserting light in space as if it had been there for millions of years) so as to give humans something to look at rather than a blank night sky?[/QUOTE][/b]It's dishonest and deliberately misleading. Also, non-falsifiable. You see, when we start talking about God making the universe to deliberately mislead us we start getting into interesting conundrums like, "The universe was made 15 minutes ago and all memories before that were planted so it would look old!" That is the same logic as what you're using and it is just as probable.Plus if belief in YECism is necessary for salvation (as many YECs seem to believe) then God is deliberately setting us up for failure. God doesn't *want* us to go to Hell and deliberately misleading us in that way constitutes Him going out of his way to make salvation more difficult than it would be otherwise. So we have two possibilities, (1) My position - What you see is what you get (2) There is no real difference between a YEC Christian and OEE Christian in the probability of their salvation so the point is moot.

One minute Creationists are claiming that there must be a Creator for the universe to be so orderly and predictable. The next minute Creationists are claiming that the violent, unpredictable universe needs a Creator to curse it so that it can be violent and unpredictable.Does this curse-the-entire-universe-because-one-man-got-into-your-fruit-orchard issue raise questions regarding the nature of God to anyone else?

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[This message has been edited by gene90, 05-15-2002]

[QUOTE][b]That vaporous molecules ‘unpredictably’ arrange to form air to breath[/QUOTE][/b]I'm sorry but I haven't any idea what you are talking about. "Vaporous" molecules "arrange" themselves to "form" air? Maybe you can make that clearer by defining words that I have placed in quotation marks and how they relate to our atmosphere? [QUOTE][b]He seems to imply that God has no right to form a vessel ofYou recently posted a comment that the Creationists around here are off maturing. Well, I hope that as you mature your theology will mature as well, and your personal concept of God will lose this preschool "Smite them all!" mentality. [QUOTE][B]--Gene (and others), did you miss the ‘redemptive’ data supporting the nature of God as ‘redeemer’, too?[/QUOTE][/b]The nature of God as a redeemer is inconsistent with the nature of God as a childish curser of CreatioYou recently posted a comment that the Creationists around here are off maturing. Well, I hope that as you mature your theology will mature as well, and your personal concept of God will lose this preschool "Smite them all!" mentality. [QUOTE][b]--Gene (and others), did you miss the ‘redemptive’ data supporting the nature of God as ‘redeemer’, too?[/QUOTE][/b]The nature of God as a redeemer is inconsistent with the nature of God as a childish curser of CreatioT=Submit Reply concept of God is just or it is not.I think your concept of God is terribly flawed because most *people* seem to have a greater capacity for forgiveness than your version of the perfect being. When was the last time somebody got shot stealing fruit in your hometown? And if that happened, would the shooter go unpunished? I hope not.

[QUOTE][b]You appear to ‘regard’ ‘forgiveness’ as ‘evident’ in people, to be greater than the ‘forgiveness’ of the ID’er![/QUOTE][/b]I have yet to hear of a fruit thief being punished by cursing the universe, except for the incident in Genesis.You attribute everything bad in life as being a result of the Curse, some twisted kind of punishment on all of us for something we did not do. Not one of us here was in the Garden, we did not transgress God's law. Nor would a just God punish us as such. Let me repeat, to punish us for our own sins is fair, but to punish us for the sins of others is not. There is no curse on the Universe, and the redemption is for our personal transgressions. Because we make the prior assumption of a just God, there are no other possibilities. [QUOTE][b]Is that enough forgiveness for you and I?[/QUOTE][/b]If we believe that we are punished from the beginning for our own sins and not those of people who came long before us. But is it reasonable for us to be cursed for an act that is supposed to have happened thousands of years ago? The OT says that God curses the offspring of a sinner to the third or fourth generation (Numbers 14:18 and many other passages) unless you happen to be descended from either (1) a bastard (2) a Moabite (3) an Ammonite, for which a literal Bible apparently does not allow salvation, ever. (Deuteronomy 23:1-3). Mosaic Law forbids execution of sons for the sins of the father (why then does God do it? See 1 Timothy 1:16; 1 Peter 2:21). This whole concept of the universe and the entire human race being cursed for the action of one man is unfair and obviously wrong.If you argue that we are punished for personal sins for knowing the difference between good and evil that position seems reasonable to me. But if you believe we are punished *because* we know the difference that position is difficult to accept. [QUOTE][b]Next time I regard an AIDS victim, a drowned child (my own), victims of terrorism, etc., might I not observe the excellent ‘redemptive’ data to formulate a scientific theory of Salvation, based on these observation.[/QUOTE][/b]No, because "cursed" and "redeemed" are not quantifiable and are subjective. [QUOTE][b]than who am I (the molded clay) to say to the Maker that [/QUOTE][/b]You're attempting to dodge the ethical implications here by pointing out the inferiority of mere mortals. You, as the molded clay, must consider the implications. Because if you are wrong, you are committing blasphemy. You do possess knowledge of good and evil, therefore you cannot duck your head into the sand and avoid the question.