Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,911 Year: 4,168/9,624 Month: 1,039/974 Week: 366/286 Day: 9/13 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   What if? (religious reaction to extraterrestrial life)
Charles Munroe
Member (Idle past 3664 days)
Posts: 40
From: Simi Valley, CA USA
Joined: 09-07-2003


Message 1 of 65 (96134)
03-30-2004 8:40 PM


Modern science is making remarkable progress in may areas. The question is what would be the reaction of the religious community if any of the following were to happen :
1) Contact was made with an extraterrestial civilization?
2) A life form was discovered on Mars?
3) Science is able to create a crude form of life in the laboratory?
4) Medical science discovers a means of extending hman life
indefinitely?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Prinny Squad!, posted 03-30-2004 9:22 PM Charles Munroe has not replied
 Message 3 by crashfrog, posted 03-30-2004 9:58 PM Charles Munroe has not replied
 Message 4 by berberry, posted 03-30-2004 10:11 PM Charles Munroe has not replied
 Message 6 by Biophysicist, posted 04-01-2004 9:47 PM Charles Munroe has not replied
 Message 21 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 05-21-2004 12:19 AM Charles Munroe has not replied

  
Charles Munroe
Member (Idle past 3664 days)
Posts: 40
From: Simi Valley, CA USA
Joined: 09-07-2003


Message 14 of 65 (96926)
04-02-2004 1:23 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Milagros
04-01-2004 11:10 PM


Eisegesis?
Milagro I believe you are engaging in eisegesis. The questions all revolve around 'what would the Creationsts reactions be'. The failure of any of these questions being resooved would have no effect on either Creationism or Evolutionary thought. Only if they came to pass would they potentially have an impact on Creationism negatively and Evolution positively.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Milagros, posted 04-01-2004 11:10 PM Milagros has not replied

  
Charles Munroe
Member (Idle past 3664 days)
Posts: 40
From: Simi Valley, CA USA
Joined: 09-07-2003


Message 31 of 65 (110312)
05-25-2004 2:59 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Cold Foreign Object
05-21-2004 3:59 PM


Free will
Willow :
According to Genesis only two people were involved in disobeying God; Adam and Eve. You and I and billions of other to come had nothing to do with their actions and yet according to the Bible we are held equally responsible. Why are you and I being held accountable for the action that took place before we were born? Doesn't make sense does it.
If Adam and Eve messed up the only way we could be held responsible would be that the flaw was passed down genetically. Now the question is why didn't God sterilize one or the other rather than let the flaw infect millions upon millions. Once again, it doesn't make sense.
Do you see any evidence that God punished the serpent? Making the sepent crawl on its belly, like it did anyway, is hardly a punishment. Doesn't make sense does it?
If God really gave a damned about human kind then why did God allow the serpent into the Garden of Eden. No human would do anything that stupid so why should God. Doesn't make any sense does it; unless you regards God as being none too bright.
Do you see any thing in the story where God warned Adam and Eve about the serpent and that the serpent wasn't to be trusted? Remember, Adam and Eve wouldn't know good from evil until after they ate of the fruit. If God were really interested in their welfare he would never have allowed the serpent in the garden or would at least warned Adam and Eve. Doesn't mke sense does it?
Want to be a real Christian? Toss the Old Testament into the trash can and concentrate on what Jesus says and not what the Old Testament says. Doing so you will eliminate all of the embarassing nonsense the Old Testament brings to your religion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 05-21-2004 3:59 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by almeyda, posted 05-25-2004 3:48 AM Charles Munroe has replied
 Message 34 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 05-25-2004 9:38 PM Charles Munroe has replied

  
Charles Munroe
Member (Idle past 3664 days)
Posts: 40
From: Simi Valley, CA USA
Joined: 09-07-2003


Message 33 of 65 (110431)
05-25-2004 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by almeyda
05-25-2004 3:48 AM


Re: Free will
Almeyda :
You are quoting verse but without understanding what you are saying. One man heard a message, disobeyed it and was punished. WHAT HAS THAT TO DO WITH YOU AND I. WE WEREN'T INVOLVED BECAUSE WE WEREN'T BORN YET.
Example : Sheriff comes knocking on your door to arrest you for cattle stealing committed by an ancestor back in the early 1800's long before your birth. What would you think of the sheriff?
A) He was perfectly justified.
B) He was completely insane.
If god created all that there is then he also created the Devil. If so then he was grossly negligent in allowing the Devil to enter the Garden of Eden where his completely innocent naive creations were living peacefully. If he had ejected the Devil sin would never have occurred.
Example : Mom goes off and leaves her young children in the care of a person with a known long criminal record. Also present in the house openly displayed are guns, explosives and poison. Now tell me if she come s home and finds the kids murdered is she a good mom? Or will she be looking at a long streach in prison?
I will repeat :
A) Toss the Old Testament in the trash.
B) Listen to what Jesus says and stop giving equal credit to what
NONSENSE humans in the Old Testament spout.
C) Before quoting verse stop,think and question. Your faith should
demands something that makes sense and not sound like it come out
of a comic book.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by almeyda, posted 05-25-2004 3:48 AM almeyda has not replied

  
Charles Munroe
Member (Idle past 3664 days)
Posts: 40
From: Simi Valley, CA USA
Joined: 09-07-2003


Message 35 of 65 (110594)
05-26-2004 5:18 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Cold Foreign Object
05-25-2004 9:38 PM


Re: Free will
Willow :
Your arguement sounds like you got it out of a comic book. If God has the power to send Satin into the the bottomless pit then God screwed up royaly by not doing it day one rather than allowing Satan to enter the Garden of Eden. You make it out to be some sort of game with peoples lives at stake. Good lord get your head out of the sand and think about what you are saying for a change.
If God created Satan not knowing that Satan would eventually betray God's trust then God cannot be called all knowing. If God did indeed know that Satan would betray him and did nothing about it then God is incompetent and as guilty as Satan.
The real reason for sin in the world has nothing to do with any Satan but requires a much more rational explaination. Without sin, such as one species eatting the other, evolution would not work and God's ultimate creation would still be at the bacterial stage.
In the future try to do a little more thinking and less quoting of scripture that you are ill prepared to understand.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 05-25-2004 9:38 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by BobAliceEve, posted 05-26-2004 8:14 AM Charles Munroe has not replied
 Message 37 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 05-26-2004 3:42 PM Charles Munroe has replied

  
Charles Munroe
Member (Idle past 3664 days)
Posts: 40
From: Simi Valley, CA USA
Joined: 09-07-2003


Message 38 of 65 (110733)
05-26-2004 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Cold Foreign Object
05-26-2004 3:42 PM


Re: Free will
Willow :
Your problem is you see and hear what you want to see and hear not what is actually there. You have made accusations concerning my beliefs that you have no basis for making. I understand that you are quoting Genesis as though it is to be taken word for word as absolutely the word of God.
First - Consider that NO where in Genesis is there any statement that this is the word of God. The story appears to originate thousands of years before Moses supposedly wrote it down. In that passage of time stories get distorted and when finally written down tend to take on a fairy tale quality reflecting the ignorance of the real world in that remote age. The key to understanding is to try to determine what it was that the original story was about.
Example : The Flood of Noah
Literalist have it that the ark contained animals from all over the world. They never stop to explain how animals managed to make it to the Old World from the New World or Australia. Answer - the only animals that ever went on the ark are those that were local.
Literalist have it that Noah made a massive wooden ship, the largest ever built until the 1800's AD. Try to visualize how you would make such a massive ship. First you would need immense amounts of sawn timber. OK! What kind of saw are you going to use? Steel or iron? Forget it. You are in the Bronze Age. OK! Go to a metal shop and secure a sheet of bronze the thickness of a saw blade and have a saw filer cut teeth in the sheet of bronze and mount it on a saw handle. Now get a piece of 2" x 4" and try cutting it in two. OH, you hardly got through the cut and the saw is so dull it won't cut. My My, I guess we can say Noah is going to have a tough time building a wooden ark. If you understand the story you would come to the conclusion that he used only a flake of Obsidian. To understand that you have to go back to the text and ask a few questions; the answers are there if you look closely. As for the world covered in water? Take a cruise and once a hundred miles to sea look around 360 degrees. Do you get the errie feeling that the "entire world is covered in water"? Noah did. And the flood? The Mediterranean Sea bursting through and flooding the Black Sea with a flow 200 times that of Niagra Falls. It happened in 5,350 BC.
Conclusion: The story of the flood is not a fairy tales just an event that through time has been distorted. Literalist have managed to turn it in to an unbelieveable fairy tale by their incompetent interpretation just like they have made a mess of other events in the Bible.
The God you seem to discribe is incompetent, ignorant and vain. The real God has none of these qualities and certainly doesn't send people to Hell simple because they don't believe in him, or never heard his message.
Science and Evolution are not the enemies of the Bible. They explain how things happened, they do not confirm or deny the existence of God; on that question they are neutral, It is the literalist fundamentalists that simple can't stand that. They posit that if you fail to involve God you are false. Utter nonsense. When you examine the Bible, as a detective would, one finds strong evidence that the story of Genesis is about Evolution. Seems unreal but that scenario eliminates all of the promblems we have argued about. Is it ture; well if it makes for a rational story, rather than the problem plagued fundamentalist version then I would say yes.
As I earlier mentioned. Leave the Old Testament to the Rabbis, you will have your hands full concentrating only on the words of Jesus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 05-26-2004 3:42 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024