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Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Age of Grand Canyon and Cave Speleothems | |||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I have a friend to thank for originally bringing this information to my attention.
From Just a moment... Science 7 March 2008:Vol. 319 no. 5868 pp. 1377-1380 DOI: 10.1126/science.1151248 Age and Evolution of the Grand Canyon Revealed by U-Pb Dating of Water Table-Type Speleothems(a) by Victor Polyak*, Carol Hill and Yemane Asmerom
quote: (Note that they are not talking about biological evolution, but the gradual development of the canyon by geological processes.) Also How to Date the Grand Canyon: Go With the Flow | WIRED
quote: Here is creationist Kent Hovind and his (bad) argument(b) for how the Grand Canyon was made:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze5A2pua1E4 The dating information above says two things that invalidate the creationist concept that the canyon was formed by flood waters in a few days or weeks as they drained away, slicing into and through the ridge:
The evidence that the canyon formed from west to east is independent of the validity of Uranium-Lead dating, it just depends on the measured levels of Uranium and Lead without any age calculation:
We can also discuss the validity of Uranium-Lead dating with reference to:
Are Uranium Halos the best evidence of (a) an old earth AND (b) constant physics? Enjoy (a) - Speleothem Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com
speleothem any of the crystalline deposits that form in a solution cave after the creation of the cave itself. These deposits are generally composed of calcium carbonate dissolved from the surrounding limestone by groundwater. Carbon dioxide carried in the water is released as the water encounters the cave air; this reduces the water's capacity to hold calcite in solution and causes the calcite to be deposited. These deposits may accumulate to form stalactites, stalagmites, flowstone, helictites, cave pearls, and many other formations. Deposits formed along ceiling cracks may produce drip curtains or draperies that may then reach the floor to become walls. Speleothems may grow in pools to form the nodular encrustations of cave coral or the natural dams that continually elevate themselves through accretion of calcite. The pure white of the calcium carbonate is often tinted with hues of red, yellow, and gray and may even be translucent. The growth rate of speleothems is highly variable due to seasonal variations in the rate of flow, carbon dioxide content, and other factors. Caves owe most of their beauty and much of their interest to these secondary growths. (b) - Note that I have shown in previous threads why Hovind's explanation is bogus and doesn't work by his own argument that water does not flow uphill -- where the Grand Canyon crosses the ridge is not the lowest point of the ridge, but up on a slope between two lower points, so if he was correct then the canyon would be in a different location. Edited by RAZD, : link Edited by RAZD, : x10 Edited by RAZD, : title Edited by RAZD, : added definition for speleothemby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
We can also discuss the validity of Uranium-Lead dating with reference to:
Are Uranium Halos the best evidence of (a) an old earth AND (b) constant physics? quote: And in relation to the OP we can also focus on the accuracy of Uranium-Lead dating techniques: From Radiometric Dating Radiometric DatingA Christian Perspective by Dr. Roger C. Wiens
quote: Note that lead loss from the speleothems would result in younger age errors, so the corrected results would be older. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
The reason is simple: the ridge that is supposedly breached during run-off from the flood is LOWER to the south and the north of the canyon location.
Here is the objective empirical data that you can see with your own eyes: Google Maps (Linking to the map does not work, so you will need to click on the link above. Make sure it shows "Terrain" to indicate the topology.) The dark areas are higher than the lighter areas. According to Hovind (and physics) water does not willingly flow uphill, so it would have flowed over one of the lower sections of the ridge (north or south) and the canyon would be in a different location. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
From Speleothems - DesertUSA
quote: From Paleoclimatology: Speleothems
quote: And, as we have seen in the OP, the thorium decays into lead, so Uranium-Lead dating can also be used. The Uranium inclusion can thus be used to accurately date when any particular layer of the speleothem was formed. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Admin Director Posts: 13040 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Thread copied to the Age of Grand Canyon and Cave Speleothems thread in the Geology and the Great Flood forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.
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