9/11 thread

Can someone point me towards a decent 9/11 dicussion (if tere has been one) on here?
I'm trying to read some arguments on both sides if possible,
I tried the search function and didn't have much luck.maybe someone know exactly where to look before I spend half a day searching..thanks

Here's the most recent. Can't say I'd call it decent. Read it here

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

What aspect of it are you looking to examine Crevo?I saw a documentary called "Obsession: Radical Islams War Against the West" recently, which placed 9/11 within a larger "global domination" context. If you get a chance then catch it. The parallels drawn between the techniques of Nazi/Radical Islam; both aimed at demonising the Jews, are jaw droppingly similar (for instance: both have a cartoons images showing an octopus with a star of David on its 'forehead' depicted as encircling the globe)http://www.worldfest.org/feature_pages/Obsession.htm

Just trying to get broad picture of the history of US foreign policy... why and how Al Queada(spelling?) came to exist and indeed hate the US.just trying to get a short cut, thought someone might know.

WOW.That is one enormous subject and I'm afraid there are no shortcuts that can possibly lead to real understanding. You're not even looking at one organization or one single overriding motive.To even get a beginning feel for the issues you need to go back at least to the break up of the Ottoman Empire (not all that long ago in reality) and look at the many many treaties made by the western nations and how many of them we ended up ignoring when implementing them would have been politically or economically inconvenient.To start your journey, understand that the middle east as we see it today is mostly the result of negotiations between Britian, France and Italy to divide up the Ottoman Empire after WWI. The boundaries and initial governments of the Nations of the Midle east and North Africa were the result of those powers drawing lines and picking regimes. The peoples themselves, the ethnic groups in the areas, had nothing to say about borders or government.In addition, most of the Nations were simply exploited, either for economic reasons (oil) or strategic reasons (control of the Suez canal), or political reasons (create the Nation of Israel) again with neither the input or concent of the peoples living there.This is a long and in many cases sordid journey you are starting on, but if you could approach it like the Grand Canyon thread, begin at the borders of the Ottoman Empire and follow it from there on, would be a fascinating excercise we would all learn from.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

By shortcut, I meant shortcut to a previous discussion.. not meaning a short, one line answer or anything like that. precisely why i wanted to avoid a repeat if indeed there had been a previous thread.

... and you know how to sort and filter using it...There have been many topics related to 9/11.I keep an alltopic database, the most recent version being http://www.lakenet.com/~mnmoose/alltopic4-30-06.XLSAs presented, it is sorted by topic origin date. I suggest resorting it by topic number. That will give you a list of topics grouped by forum. Probably look mostly at the "Coffee House" and "Free For All" forums. Or search for 9/11, 9/11/01, Iraq, etc., in the topic titles or key words fields.Good luck.Adminnemooseusps: See http://EvC Forum: All Topic database available -->EvC Forum: All Topic database available also.Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Added ps.

Hi Creavolution, I found "The Great War for Civilization" by Robert Fisk to be a very informative account of the whole issue. People on the right often accuse the author of anti-americanism, etc., but he is a well-respected journalist in the UK and places other than the US. It's a huge book and worth reading just for the factual information and the moving autobiographical detaill, even if you disagree with his political interpretations. To be honest I think Fisk does a pretty good job of signposting each section: "Here I'm going to talk about historical fact that is accepted widely", "Here I'm going to talk about Robert Fisk's personal interpretation of current affairs that you should take with a pinch of salt", "Here I'm going to talk about my father". I would just recommend (as with any book on politics) that you think while reading it, check footnotes and follow up references when you feel unconvinced or doubtful of the veracity of the text.cheersMickEdited by mick, : Missed a word out of a sentence

So, I guess maybe this is it. My impression is that a big reason was that Osama Bin Laden doesn't like the U.S. military presence in Saudi Arabia.There might also be the self serving meddling (economic warfare?) all around the world by such organizations as the World Bank and the World Trade Organization (World Trade Organization - World Trade Center, hmm?). Might not the World Trade Center symbolize the evils inflicted upon the world, by the U.S. economic complex?Moose

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Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment. "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

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"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

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"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

I would possibly add to that the whole U.S. support of Israel in its attack on palestinians too, and the seeming ability of israel to ignore UN resolution after UN resolution.(?)as jar suggested, a long and sordid history, festering for generations.

The fact that many countries have ignored UN resolution after UN resolution says more about the UN than it does the countries ignoring them. The UN is too slow moving, partisan and indecisive a beast to be relied upon by a nation such as Israel - who is surrounded by enemies sworn to bring about its destruction. Remember the UN sitting on its thumbs in Srebenica while the slaughter was carried out in front of its helpless Dutch presence on the ground?The UN is a political quagmire of vested interests - not all of them looking out for Israels interests. Many of these countries themselves have histories touched by anti-semitism. And all are interested in the oil which flows from the region - none of which Israel has.UN resolutions indeed...

I agree the UN is pretty much useless... but I'll give you a quiz question.what country has vetoed more security council resolutions (by far) than any other?

The US I'd warrant?

Yup, sure is.The UN is a joke though.The US breaks international law constantly along with a lot of countries the US is against.No one cares about the UN at all.

None of the big guys for sure. There is a game being played and its all about maintaining position. All are going to pull out the Veto when their interests are threatened past a certain point. That the US does it more probably means that its sphere of influence extends that much wider than the others. Which is how we find it in factWhen it come to US support of Israel and you look at Israel being the dominating (friendly) military force in the region, its no surprise that the US will veto anything which threatens that advantageous positionOne should note which countries are supporting the motions that the US is vetoing. And why It's a game - I wouldn't look at US vetoing as being a 'bad' thing as such.Personally I think the Al Q gig is simply part of radicial Islam Jihad. Islam vs actual Israel (Jews) and spiritual Israel (Christianity)Edited by iano, : No reason given.