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Author | Topic: Gay marriage and the law | |||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Wives (until very recently) have "always" had to obediently submit to the sexual advances of their husbands, by the definition of marriage, thus making marital rape an extremely recent concept that people just a few decades ago would have thought unnatural and ridiculous. Just because something has "always been" doesn't mean it should go on being so.
quote: Er, maybe you can explain how promoting marriage, which is the basic unit of society, and supporting greater numbers of consenting adults to engage in it, will lead to a less stable society. If you want people to stop fornicating and sleeping around, thet them get married. Encourage marriage and monogomy.
quote: No. Everybody has always been born bisexual (more or less) and societal pressures to identify as and behave as exclusively heterosexual has been much greater in the past than it is today. Is this so difficult a concept to figure out that it has never even occurred to you?
quote: Er, nobody can "manipulate" another person to become sexually aroused in response to a particular gender if they don't find that gender sexually arousing in the first place. Maybe you believe you could be "tricked" or "convinced" into thinking that you want to have hot gay sex (and judging by your insistance that gay men constantly hit on you, it seems that you think about it a lot), but it simply cannot be done unless the person has that innate attraction in the first place. Perhaps what you are noticing isn't "manipulation", but people not fearing to be honest about their sexuality. Certainly, people of older generations tend to be far more repressed, since they were socially and often literally, physically punished, often severely, for even hinting at being anything other than extremely heterosexual. I mean, it wasn't very long ago that any openly gay people were often regularly harassed, beaten and sometimes killed just for being gay. It doesn't take much imagination to understand that since that threat of harm or death is lessened (though far from eliminated in many places) that people would feel freer to be themselves, and thus not live a lie anymore. Gay and Bi folk have always been here, juggs, but people like you have forced them to pretend to be something they aren't just to survive.
quote: Have you ever honestly considered that there are no repercussions to society other than religionists like you being put out because you can't control other people? All of the arguments you've made in this post have been seen before, except they were made 50 years ago by people who thought that society was headed down the tubes because blacks were going to be allowed to marry whites. Isn't it awful that many young people think that it isn't gross to be attracted to people of a different skin color, and don't give the idea of dating or marrying someone like that a second thought? Isn't it a sign of the degradation of our society? Edited by nator, : No reason given. Edited by nator, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Marital rape - Wikipedia
maybe you can explain how promoting marriage, which is the basic unit of society, and supporting greater numbers of consenting adults to engage in it, will lead to a less stable society. quote: What does promoting marriage lead to that you would consider detrimental to society? the rest of your "examples" are irrelevant to marriage.
quote: It is an awful lot harder, though. Don't you agree? From my own experience, I can certainly tell you that if it wasn't for the fact that I am married, I might not still be with my partner. He would probably say the same. The institution of marriage is vital to promoting monogamy and stable families. Surely you aren't going to contest that, are you?
nobody can "manipulate" another person to become sexually aroused in response to a particular gender if they don't find that gender sexually arousing in the first place. quote: He's not a Social Psychologist. He's a Cognitive Psychologist and studies things like memory and face recognition. Psychology is a big, big field, remember.
quote: So, how come "culture" can't turn gay people straight? It didn't work for Ted Haggerd, did it? Look, Juggs, you have to stop thinking of sexuality is such either/or terms. Just about every trait in a population can be plotted on a bell curve distribution, and I don't see why sexuality should be much different. ...especially considering the very strong social bonding role sex has in our species. Anyhow, there will be a few "very hetero" and "very homo" at either end of the curve, but most people fall somewhere in the middle. Culture will serve to influence where they feel free to publically express their sexual feelings and take mates, but this doesn't mean they don't still have the ability to respond sexually to the same gender given the right circumstances.
quote: Same thing with interracial marriage. Most people were "wierded out" by that concept as well. So what?
it wasn't very long ago that any openly gay people were often regularly harassed, beaten and sometimes killed just for being gay. quote: That's not the point. The point is, terrorizing a group for certain behaviors is apt to have a chilling effect upon the behaviors. Remove the terrorist threats, and the behavior that was repressed will be more freely expressed.
quote: Actually, if you read any history, you know that they have always been there. Repressed and persecuted, but there.
quote: They probably believed that due to the bigoted and homophobic society in which they lived. Can you explain to me without using the a religious argument, why homosexuality is immoral?
quote: Anyone who breaks a promise or lies to their family is doing wrong to others and as such is likely to be judged by society as having hurt others. How is being gay similar to adultery? Please explain. All of the arguments you've made in this post have been seen before, except they were made 50 years ago by people who thought that society was headed down the tubes because blacks were going to be allowed to marry whites.
All of the arguments you've made in this post have been seen before, except they were made 50 years ago by people who thought that society was headed down the tubes because blacks were going to be allowed to marry whites. quote: Of course they were, juggs.
quote: I can't think of any, other than religious and gay-hating people possibly getting so angry and fearful about their fading ability to dictate to other people what to do and how to live that they become desperate and violent.
quote: Why aren't there any reprocussions? Maybe becasue it is a good thing.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
What does promoting marriage lead to that you would consider detrimental to society? quote: I didn't ask about gay marriage, I asked about marriage in general.
The institution of marriage is vital to promoting monogamy and stable families. Surely you aren't going to contest that, are you? quote: Not necessarily, no. Two or more caregivers make for more stable families than single parent households, but it doesn't really matter what gender those two or more responsible adults are.
Look, Juggs, you have to stop thinking of sexuality is such either/or terms. Just about every trait in a population can be plotted on a bell curve distribution, and I don't see why sexuality should be much different. ...especially considering the very strong social bonding role sex has in our species. quote: What does pedophilia have to do with homosexuality? The vast majority of pedophiles are men who say they are straight, you know.
quote: Right, but I still can't figure out where you got any of this from my statement above. I was talking about the fact that most people's sexual orientation falls somewhere in the middle of a bell curve with "very hetero" on one end and "very homo" on the other, and that society influences which kinds of feelings and relationships they persue. What does pedophelia or rape have to do with sexual orientation, for christ's sake?
quote: Yeah, and many powerful conservative Christian men who condemn homosexuality seem to seek out gay sex. Funny, that.
Can you explain to me without using the a religious argument, why homosexuality is immoral? quote: Sure. Is there harm? Now, back to the question I asked. I asked if you could explain why homosexuality is immoral without using a religious argument. Try, really try to put aside your religious bigotry, and do your best to come up with a non-religious moral reason that homosexuality is immoral. Who does it harm?
Why aren't there any reprocussions? Maybe because it is a good thing. quote: It is simply the moral thing to do. It contributes to the stability of society.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. Questionable content has been rendered invisible. If you must read content, use the Peek button but do not respond. AdminPD Edited by AdminPD, : Warning
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Except, of course, it does deny exual protection for those who wish to marry someone of the same gender. Maybe you don't get that the bell curve of sexuality I was talking about puts a lot of people in the "bi but leaning towards homo" category. Edited by nator, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: California, D.C, Hawaii, and Washington allow same sex domestic partnerships Connecticut, Maine, New Hampsire, New Jersey, Oregon, and Vermont allow same sex civil unions Massachusets allows gay marriage
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Sure, it happens all the time. Marriage between people who love each other is considered by many to be inherently good, yet our government banned mixed race marriage for a long time, and still bans homosexual marriage in most places.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: And if you don't like what's going on in any state in the country, or are too poor to move, you are SOL? Yeah, pretty beautiful.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: So, can a man without a penis never marry?
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