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Author Topic:   Do liberal judges favor wealthy developers over regular people?
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 3 of 109 (260545)
11-17-2005 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by randman
11-17-2005 1:08 AM


All the liberals voted to empower the taking of anyone's land, if a city sees fit, and the moderates split, and all of the conservatives favored interpreting the 5th Amendment as meaning what it originally meant.
No, they voted to not overrule the state. I personally have concerns about the taking of private property in this way, but I don't fault the supreme court for concluding that it is a state issue rather than a Federal issue.
I do think you wrongly characterize it as liberal vs. conservative. In my book, Kennedy is a conservative. O'Connor often pays more attention to the specifics of the particular case than to broad constitutional principles. If we consider only the votes of the others, it looks more like a case of the idealogical extremists against the rest.
I really don't want to further discuss this. I haven't studied the full details of the case, and it is not one I want to spend time studying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by randman, posted 11-17-2005 1:08 AM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by randman, posted 11-17-2005 1:14 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 5 of 109 (260588)
11-17-2005 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by randman
11-17-2005 1:14 PM


Re: that's not correct
What they were ruling on was the meaning of "public use" in the 5th amendment. The liberals redefined the term "public use" to mean any private use deemed beneficial to the public by local authorities.
As I said before, I don't want to get into the details. I haven't studied it, and I don't have the inclination to study it in detail.
Your claim that "public use" was redefined seems wrong. The constitution does not define the term, and therefore this could not be a redefinition.
Your characterization of this as liberal vs conservative is also wrong. Kennedy is a conservative, not a liberal. I'm not persuaded that there are any liberals on the court.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by randman, posted 11-17-2005 1:14 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by randman, posted 11-17-2005 1:50 PM nwr has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 37 of 109 (260799)
11-18-2005 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by randman
11-18-2005 12:50 AM


Re: randman once again mispreresents what someone says.
..., and the liberals voted for it?
No liberals voted for it. There are no liberals on the supreme court. There are only moderates, conservatives and ideological extremists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by randman, posted 11-18-2005 12:50 AM randman has replied

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 Message 38 by randman, posted 11-18-2005 1:08 AM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 40 of 109 (260804)
11-18-2005 1:16 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by randman
11-18-2005 1:08 AM


Re: no liberals, eh?
And why do you not answer the question of where you stand?
I put the blame on the city council (or whatever the body is called) of New London. They used poor judgement. I hope the people of New London throw them out at the next municipal election. In this case, that's where the proper outlet is for checks and balances.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by randman, posted 11-18-2005 1:08 AM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by randman, posted 11-18-2005 1:21 AM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 42 of 109 (260809)
11-18-2005 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by randman
11-18-2005 1:21 AM


Re: no liberals, eh?
Let's say the local government shuts down a newspaper they don't like, and the courts say, well, just forget about that free press clause. What it really means is that there is some free press, not that everyone is free.
That's a strawman argument.
Do we blame just the local government and hope they throw those dudes out next election?
I can only feel sorry for you, that you are so confused as to think this a reasonable analogy.
The US Supreme court, led by the most leftist people on the court, just decided it was open season on the homes of poor folks.
No, they didn't do that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by randman, posted 11-18-2005 1:21 AM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by randman, posted 11-18-2005 1:48 AM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 46 of 109 (260853)
11-18-2005 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by randman
11-18-2005 1:48 AM


Re: no liberals, eh?
They said it's OK for local governments to take away people's homes and give it to developers.
You have a nasty habit of describing everything in very biased terms.
No, that is not what they decided. That's your interpretation of what will be the consequences of their decision.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by randman, posted 11-18-2005 1:48 AM randman has not replied

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 Message 47 by Silent H, posted 11-18-2005 8:16 AM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 58 of 109 (260959)
11-18-2005 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Silent H
11-18-2005 8:16 AM


Re: no liberals, eh?
I'm sorry, but isn't that a real world consequence of that decision?
No, it isn't. They were paid for the property. It was not just taken.
Suppose there is a factory that is spewing pollution. Residents of nearby houses suffer serious health consequences. The state passes anti-pollution legislation requiring the factory to clean up its act. The factory owners sue, arguing that the legislation amount to taking their property (the rights to use their land as they please) for the benefit of the homeowners.
You know, as well as I, that Scalia and Thomas are both congenial to this sort of argument.
In Message 43, randman writes as if the majority justices were sitting down and discussing sneaky ways that a state could use to take property from average citizens. I'm saying that it was far more likely that they were trying to avoid setting bad precedents, and that their aim was to preserve to states the abilities that they need to reasonably protect the average citizen.
don't like the fact that a board comprised of my neighbors has been given the power to decide what is best for my piece of property, just because we are neighbors.
I don't like what happened to the ordinary folk involved in this case. But we don't need major brain surgery to relieve the pain from a broken finger. Scalia, Thomas, Renquist were trying to set precedents that could badly cripple government.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Silent H, posted 11-18-2005 8:16 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Chiroptera, posted 11-18-2005 1:50 PM nwr has replied
 Message 64 by Silent H, posted 11-18-2005 5:41 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 78 of 109 (261176)
11-19-2005 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Chiroptera
11-18-2005 1:50 PM


Re: no liberals, eh?
but I didn't get that impression when I very quickly glanced through their dissents.
I would not expect the published opinion to represent everything that was discussed. So we are left guessing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Chiroptera, posted 11-18-2005 1:50 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 79 of 109 (261179)
11-19-2005 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Silent H
11-18-2005 5:41 PM


Re: no liberals, eh?
Hey just because they took your wife is okay, as long as they pay for her?
Not a good analogy, unless you think wives are mere property.
In any case, if faced with a decision between crippling govt and individuals, I would side with crippling govt.
On that basis, I guess we should abandon government, because there will always be a few who are hurt.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Silent H, posted 11-18-2005 5:41 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Silent H, posted 11-19-2005 6:05 AM nwr has not replied

  
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