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Author Topic:   castor oil packs-real treatment or quackery?
Meddle
Member (Idle past 1300 days)
Posts: 179
From: Scotland
Joined: 05-08-2006


Message 23 of 97 (368299)
12-07-2006 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by purpledawn
11-25-2006 12:40 PM


Re: Castor Oil Packs
Just a quick question. You say you are heading into menopause, which results from a decrease in oestrogen, as the ovaries cease producing the hormone. Why then does your naturopath think you have an excess of oestrogen i.e. what symptoms are they basing this diagnosis on?

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 Message 7 by purpledawn, posted 11-25-2006 12:40 PM purpledawn has replied

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Meddle
Member (Idle past 1300 days)
Posts: 179
From: Scotland
Joined: 05-08-2006


Message 43 of 97 (372647)
12-28-2006 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by purpledawn
12-28-2006 6:01 AM


Re: Can't Say Why, But it Does
T11 positive (more commonly referred to as CD2 positive) T lymphocytes are involved in the inflammatory response. CD2 binds with the ligand LFA-3, which is expressed by dendritic cells and endothelial cells, so plays a crucial role in the recruitment and migration of lymphocytes to the site of inflammation. This interaction between CD2 and LFA-3 has been identified in inflammatory diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis and psoriasis.
Therefore this reported increase in lymphocytes could be the result of a localised inflammatory response; the castor oil does not even need to be absorbed through the dermis into the circulation.
The article you linked to also seems to show a lack of understanding in how the immune system works (I hope this is not a reflection of what was written in the original study). Aside from the obvious fact that T lymphocytes don't produce antibodies, it makes this sweeping assumption that an increase in lymphocytes represents a general boost in the immune system. The boost in lymphocytes is the result of clonal proliferation to a specific antigen, and once this antigen is eradicated, the majority of these lymphocyte clones will die (monitoring of lymphocyte number for longer than 24 hours would be advisable). Furthermore, the way the immune system is initiated will affect how effective it is at dealing with different pathogens e.g. if it is activated in response to a bacterial infection, it will be less able to deal with a viral infection.

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 Message 42 by purpledawn, posted 12-28-2006 6:01 AM purpledawn has replied

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 Message 44 by purpledawn, posted 12-29-2006 9:07 AM Meddle has replied

Meddle
Member (Idle past 1300 days)
Posts: 179
From: Scotland
Joined: 05-08-2006


Message 46 of 97 (372855)
12-29-2006 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by purpledawn
12-29-2006 9:07 AM


Re: Lymphocytes
quote:
But the lymphocyte B cells do produce antibodies and the T cells help the B cells.
The excerpt stated that there was a concomitant (happening together) increase in the number of total lymphocytes.
T helper lymphocytes can specialise as either Th1 or Th2 depending on how they were initially activated. Each type expresses a different complement of surface receptors and cytokines. It is Th2 lymphocytes which can stimulate B lymphocytes (Th1 lymphocytes activate macrophages).
In this study, it is likely that B lymphocytes would be stimulated, as CD2 would result in Th2 differentiation. My issue was with the last line in your quote, which to me at least, gave the impression that it was the "T-11" lymphocytes which produce the antibodies. T lymphocytes protect the body by causing infected cells to commit suicide (apoptosis). I do agree that this is likely the authors misunderstanding and not in the original study.
quote:
Since the castor oil packs are used when there is something wrong with the body, there doesn't seem to be a need for a permanent rise in the lymphocytes. Pack application varies from daily to weekly.
Any idea how the liver funtions when there is a rise in lymphocytes or if any other part of the body is affected?
The point I was trying to make, albeit not very well, was that the immune system was reacting to the castor oils irritation of the skin, resulting in the inflammatory immune response. A permanent rise in lymphocytes is not necessary, since this increase simply represents a population of identical clones. As I said, the lymphocytes will decrease after the cause of the irritation, in this case the castor oil, is removed and any remaining in the skin is neutralised. But if the castor oil was making a positive effect elsewhere in the body, this increase in lymphocytes should persist.
Can't find anything so far on an increase in lymphocytes directly affecting liver function or any other part of the body, aside from the damaging effects on tissues by cytokines. However, the immune response would be localised to the dermis directly beneath the castor oil pad, since this is the site of inflammation.

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Meddle
Member (Idle past 1300 days)
Posts: 179
From: Scotland
Joined: 05-08-2006


Message 51 of 97 (373501)
01-01-2007 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by purpledawn
12-27-2006 7:27 AM


Re: Transdermal Absorption
Studies in humans indicated that the percentage absorption of castor oil is inversely proportional to the dose given. A dose of 4g of castor oil was almost completely absorbed; whereas, 64% of a dose of 50g appeared in the faeces within 24 hours, and almost 90% of 60g dose was excreted in the faeces. Doses of 10g or more of castor oil produced either mild laxation of purgation (Watson et al., 1963).
I was thinking back to this which you posted. The fact that the percentage absored across the gut mucosa decreased as the dose increased suggested that there was some limiting factor. It seems that, like other fatty acids, castor oil must be emulsified in bile salts before it can be absorbed across the mucosa. The epidermis, unlike the gut mucosa, is not adapted to absorption, and obviosly does not have bile salts, so it is unlikely that castor oil would be able to significantly penetrate this barrier.
Of course your other study from the Meridian Institute does state that a high level of epoxydicarboxylic acid was excreted in the urine following oral administration but not in castor oil packs. Since epoxydicarboxylic acid is a the byproduct of castor oil metabolism, this indicates that castor oil is not entering the body transdermally.

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 Message 34 by purpledawn, posted 12-27-2006 7:27 AM purpledawn has replied

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